This episode features an interview with Keri-Lynn Pajer, Vice President of HR Business Partnerships and Change Initiatives at Agero. Keri-Lynn is a Strategy and Planning Executive with expertise in aligning organizational needs to the delivery of complex business solutions and expanded capabilities. At Agero, she previously served as the Senior Director of Internal Communications and Change Initiatives, and was the Director of Transformation Strategy at Staples. In this episode, Miriam and Keri-Lynn discuss the importance of listening to employees, the balancing act of integrating AI while maintaining human connections, and the continuous effort to maintain a culture of trust and engagement.
This episode features an interview with Keri-Lynn Pajer, Vice President of HR Business Partnerships and Change Initiatives at Agero. Keri-Lynn is a Strategy and Planning Executive with expertise in aligning organizational needs to the delivery of complex business solutions and expanded capabilities. At Agero, she previously served as the Senior Director of Internal Communications and Change Initiatives, and was the Director of Transformation Strategy at Staples.
In this episode, Miriam and Keri-Lynn discuss the importance of listening to employees, the balancing act of integrating AI while maintaining human connections, and the continuous effort to maintain a culture of trust and engagement.
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“ I think the secret sauce is the employee. It's ensuring that you have a really structured, intentional employee listening program. What we like to say here is that we don't ever ask a question that we don't plan on or don't have the ability to make changes to. It's this one small act of change. Understanding what the employee needs and wants and really taking that information and trying to take one small step forward every time you hear something. Communication is a huge part of that.” – Keri-Lynn Pajer
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Episode Timestamps:
*(03:07): Getting to know Keri-Lynn
*(07:00): Defining and enhancing employee engagement
*(09:06): The secret sauce to high engagement
*(16:57): Building connectivity and trust
*(27:26): Adapting to hybrid and remote work
*(35:35): The role of AI in connectivity
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Links:
Connect with Keri-Lynn on LinkedIn
Connect with Miriam on LinkedIn
Miriam Connaughton: Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Cohesion Podcast. My name is Miriam Connaughton and I am the Chief People Officer at Simpplr, and I'm delighted to be joined on this edition of Cohesion with Keri-Lynn Pajer.
Miriam Connaughton: Welcome Keri. Thank you so much for joining us.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Thank you so much, Mary. I'm glad to be here. Thank you.
Miriam Connaughton: And you've got one of the most interesting titles that I think I've heard, and we'll come on to that in a moment. So you're VP of business partnerships and change initiatives. But first of all, Agero, I think it's a company that if you own a car in North America, you might've used your services, but you might not know about it.
Miriam Connaughton: So tell us a little bit, first of all, about the company.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Yeah, that's exactly right. So we are a white label driver. assistance company. If you think roadside, think accident management, consumer affairs, etc. The best way to think about it is if something happens to you on the side of the road, we're there to help.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Our digital dispatch platform really is what connects everyone together. So it connects the driver, it connects, you know, your insurance agent and the service provider, the tow truck, on the side of the road through a platform in real time.
Miriam Connaughton: Very cool. As a car family and car owner, I suspect somewhere along the way we have used your services and I just didn't realize it.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Yes, most likely.
Miriam Connaughton: So before we get into your role a little bit, we like our listeners just to get to know our guests on Cohesion. So I'm going to start off with a few little icebreaker questions. One of them was going to be, are you a cat or a dog person? And I see a lovely dog in the background. So that's answered already.
Miriam Connaughton: But let's kind of start with, so when you're working, you know, if you're not on a call, do you like music while you work? Or do you like just the quiet and calm and the thinking time?
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Oh, I'm a definitely a music person. Those that know me know that I operate best in chaos.
Miriam Connaughton: What kind of music do you like? Is it like upbeat dance music? What do you go for?
Keri-Lynn Pajer: So I am a bit of a country fan, so it's usually some soft country in the background, or I do love a good Matchbox 20, so it depends on my mood that day.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, I'm with you. I occasionally have the music going on in the background too. And so another either or for you.
Miriam Connaughton: I mean, are you one of these people who are bouncy very early in the morning? You're a morning person or are you a bit more of a night owl?
Keri-Lynn Pajer: I am definitely more of a morning person than a night person. Absolutely.
Miriam Connaughton: Although some days I'm sure it feels like we're both, doesn't it? But we have to be both.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Well, yes, yes.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And the going dark at four o'clock is not helpful in that case. But yeah, I would much rather get up in the morning and start the day and then wind down with a good book at night.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you there. So let's unpack your really interesting role. It's a title that I've not seen that often in that combination.
Miriam Connaughton: So unpack it for us and explain for our listeners kind of what it all encompasses.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Of course. Yeah, it is. It is a bit unique. So my responsibility at Agiro is a little bit of like the employee lifecycle. So if you think about it from that perspective, I am responsible for talent acquisition. I then am responsible for internal communications and engagement and culture.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And then HR business partnerships. So then the exit of the employee as well. And so I have a really interesting purview into the employee experience at Agero. Most definitely.
Miriam Connaughton: And so literally from bringing employees in, bringing talent in, as you said, all the way through off body, how do you think about that?
Miriam Connaughton: Do you talk employee journeys or life cycles? You know, we all have different ways of looking, think about it. What's your approach to that?
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Yeah. So I think all of that definitely. works. I think the way that I like to explain it is your time at an organization. So specifically Agero is a chapter in a book.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And so you turn the page and you enter in and that chapter might be really good. It might be really not good. Hopefully it's good, but it's really all about recruiting, experiencing, developing, and then exiting. And we just hope that in that chapter of life of your career, that it is, it's one of the best ones that you have.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And so in each area, each space of your journey, your life cycle at an organization, you need something differently. And so being able to pay attention to that and lean into that is really where the passion for us is.
Miriam Connaughton: I like the way of thinking about it as chapters, because the reality is that there are fewer and fewer examples out there where somebody we're going to get great talent in and they're going to see the whole careers out.
Miriam Connaughton: Those organizations still do exist out there, but they're getting fewer and fewer. So thinking about that chapter career experience while you're with us, I think is a great way of looking at it.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Yeah. And I think it also sort of focuses you as an organization to really understand and lean into what's important.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: So if you're very open about the fact that this is a chapter in somebody's career, and it could be a really long chapter, or it could be a short chapter, either one, by recognizing it in that way, it really allows you to connect with the employee a little bit differently and more intentional.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, I always learn things from this.
Miriam Connaughton: I'm going to file that away. I like thinking about things in that way. That's that's helpful. So let's kind of dive in to a few hours. So many interesting things that I want to cover with you. But you touched on kind of connecting with employees there. And let's kind of start with that big topic of employee engagement.
Miriam Connaughton: It's just it's so important as we know, as practitioners to the employee experience. Just start off. First of all, you know, there's no lot people who textbook definition of engagement a little bit probably is, but we all have our own working definitions. What's your working definition at Azure of how you define and think about employee engagement?
Keri-Lynn Pajer: It's funny that you say it that way, because honestly, everyone has a little bit of a different concept of engagement, and I always find it interesting. When you sometimes talk about engagement and people are like, oh, it's all the fun stuff. It's the events. It's, we wanna be, you know, be fun at work. And it's so much more than that.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And so the way that I like to describe it, it's a feeling. It's a feeling that you get and that feeling both comes from like the emotional side, but also the mental side. And so it's really about this connection, me as an employee that I. mentally connected to the work that I do. But then I also feel connected to the work that I do in the people that I work with.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: So for me, it's very much a mental and emotional connection, but it's very personal. And so it's not all about having fun at work. And I think that's also what makes it so interesting and like this really gnarly concept to sort of solve for because it's different for everyone. And so there's no one answer.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And you know, you can take that as a little bit of a scary opportunity or just one that's really exciting to sort of dig your hands into.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, I like how you described it. There's definitely that thinking bit that cognitive piece as well as the feeling bit the emotional piece. And I also think about it in that way.
Miriam Connaughton: And also it's the acting piece. It's the behavioral piece, you know, because that's if you like the manifestation of either good high engagement or disengagement. So it's that thinking that feeling, but also the acting piece. And, you know, as you mentioned, it's also intrinsic and extrinsic. So it's hard to manage.
Miriam Connaughton: But I know from chatting with you before, I mean, you have pretty high engagement levels. So it's a tough thing to manage. We know to sustain at high levels. So what do you think of some of the kind of secret sauce that you've developed that have helped you get to that place?
Keri-Lynn Pajer: I would honestly say that there's two things that has brought us to this success.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: One is ensuring that what I believe is not the case. So it's this concept of we don't actually know and being okay with that. That's a very humbling statement when you're in a position to try to drive something in an organization. I think when it comes to engagement, not knowing is actually a really good thing if you could take it to the second piece.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And the second piece is your employees will tell you all you have to do is listen. And that sounds pretty simple. However, listening, but then actually transferring that into an action to really drive positive change is really important. I would say that we haven't figured it out because it is a gnarly problem that continues to evolve and not a problem as a negative, but one that we just have to keep focused on because it continues to evolve.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: So for us, I would say, you know, as you called it, the secret sauce. I think the secret sauce is the employee. And it's ensuring that you have a really structured, intentional employee listening program. And what we like to say here is that we don't ever ask a question that we don't plan on or don't have the ability to make changes to.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And it's this one small act of change. And so understanding what the employee needs and wants and really taking that information and trying to take one small step forward. Every time you, you hear something and communication is a huge part of that, you know, I think we talk a lot about transparency and it becomes a buzzword, but really what transparency is is being comfortable and humble and saying what you know when you know and how you know it and quite honestly what you don't know and so we're very open at Agero about that. And it was uncomfortable at first and it still can be uncomfortable.
Miriam Connaughton: For sure. Yeah, yeah. And it builds trust, doesn't it? I mean, we all know that. We know that in our personal lives as well, but it's a hard step sometimes to make and understand the responsibilities that come with transparency as well for everybody within the organization, especially when you're sharing, you know, maybe sensitive or difficult information or whatever that is.
Miriam Connaughton: One of the things I was looking at, I mean, envious of organizations that can sustain that high engagement. It's a difficult thing to do. We all know that as practitioners, we work on it hard here as well. It's simpler and generally engagements going down, as we know, when we read kind of the Gallup research on that and so forth.
Miriam Connaughton: So to you. have that kind of high engagement communications part of it. What are the other things that you feel in, you know, in your environment are important to maintaining that high engagement?
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Yeah. So I love this question because there's so many ways that you can go after it. I think My unique position lends a really my perspective, cool way of doing this.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And so I sort of have this trifecta approach. So as I told you, I oversee internal communications, but I also oversee engagement, employee listening. And then we have what I like to call the, the secret sauce here as well, which is the people business partner. So when you think about all those connection points, within an organization.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Normally, a lot of these areas are we develop programs and then we roll them out to the organization. And in my experience, when you roll them out to the organization, you're sort of crossing your fingers that they're going to get connected to and implemented. The way that I sort of operate at, and Agero operates is our People business partners are our activators.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And so if you think about it, we've got an employee listening crew who really understands and drives engagement, listens to what's going on in the organization through, you know, the surveys, et cetera. But then also we've got people, business partners who aren't just talking to the employees and the managers about employee relations, but they're also activating the programs that we have.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And so it's less about a rollout and more about really sort of bringing it. into the common thread of their day to day. And so engagement stays high. Because one, we're listening to the employees to were very intentional about communicating what the mission is, what the strategy is, but also their specific role within it.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And then we have boots on the ground who are really out there in the organization, helping to really answer the question, stay connected and activating a lot of what we're trying to work through from an engagement perspective.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, that that word activation is so important, isn't it? That's where the rubber hits the road.
Miriam Connaughton: It's it's where it actually comes to life. And I imagine those activators, as you call them, which I think is a great, great name for it. They're also I imagine a big part of your manager enablement, because we know how important that role of the people manager is in engagement. So share a little bit of what are some of the things that you do to really kind of forge that partnership and really support managers effectively.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Yeah. Well, again, managers are really the key when it comes to this. And I think the first and foremost important piece is ensuring that managers know that engagement is a shared responsibility. It isn't something that we. roll out and we put a survey out once or twice a year and that just is your score.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: It is an ongoing everyday, really targeted approach and really understanding your team. And if you can get your managers behind that and empowered to do it and recognizing the role that they play. in the day to day of the engagement of the employee. I think that you can unlock something pretty special there.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: One of the things that we do and we're very intentional about as well is that the manager is an employee themselves. So they're not just a manager. Yes, they have a team that they need to manage and they need to enable that team and they need to enable the organization, but they also are an employee.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And so they need to understand that like when they sit back and they have a feeling about something or they are not. Motivated or connected to the strategy that, of course, if they're not, their team might not be. And so recognizing that they're an employee first and having a conversation with them as an as your own employee first.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And then how do you transform that into how you're a manager and what that means for you and your team? I think that's where we we really focus the most.
Miriam Connaughton: I think that's a really kind of helpful perspective to look at it, a reminder, because like you just described, you need to ask those managers, how are you feeling about this?
Miriam Connaughton: You know, what do you think? Because until I help you maybe get aligned or understand our mission better or whatever it is, it's hard to fake that. And if you do fake it, employees are good at sniffing that out. You've got to manage your own engagement as a leader. And it's an interesting perspective that
Miriam Connaughton: to be reminded of because we often just say come on people managers do your thing well first let me help you react as an individual
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Yeah yeah and think about yourself even you know in the role that you have and how you sort of manage your day to day you're trying to focus. You know yourself as an employee first, and then you go and lead a team and lead the organization.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And if you can connect with the, the people in that space first, I think that's where a lot of the power starts.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, no, it's, it's a good reminder that, and, and you mentioned a little while ago there, connectivity. You know, connectivity is so important to engagement and lots of other goodness that comes from it.
Miriam Connaughton: I love the fact that you've got this life cycle under your purview, you know, and communications is such an important part of that. Talk to me a little bit about how you approach building that connectivity, starting with the highest order from purpose all the way through.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: So I will say that I start off at myself and I really think through what keeps me connected and what motivates me in that space.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And I recognize who I am as an individual and who I am As an employee and then try to leverage that in spaces where we have the outreach, we have the ability to control for lack of a better way of saying it. And so I, you know, I really think about it in three ways. One is the reason people come to organizations and state organizations is really And I'll speak to myself.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: The reason I do as a person is I really value the organization, what they do and why they do it. I believe in that mission and purpose. I like the job that I have. I like the work that I do. I genuinely get up in the morning and I want to do it. And I also feel valued and recognized for the work that I'm doing.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And I think the third thing, honestly, is I like the people I work with. Not because, you know, I can go out and have a drink with them at the end of the day, but more like they push me. me to think differently. They challenge me and they're fun to work with. And so if I think about that as myself, that's what I want to be able to connect an employee to.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And so again, from an internal comms perspective, we very much work a lot around connecting people to the purpose, making sure they understand the vision and the mission and why we do what we do. And so it's really bringing in that customer voice. a lot. We do a lot of work there. And as we talked about in the beginning, we, you know, the work that we do is on the side of the road.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Sometimes it's in a person's worst moment of their day and just trying to keep that in the front of why we do what we do. And then, so in the calm space, it's very much about ensuring that we've got that we have areas and ways for people to stay connected to that. In the engagement space, it's a lot around ensuring that they have a voice and not just that they have a voice, but that we're showing them that we're listening to their voice.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And I think, you know, one of the misconceptions, Miriam, is that just because I said something doesn't mean I expect you to do it. It is, I said it, this is my feeling, just tell me that you were heard. And if you can't meet that need, explain why. And I think that explaining why is really key. And so we spend a lot of time there, and it's about being inclusive to what people really want.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And not everybody needs to participate in everything. And so we have an optionality about that part of the culture. And then. When it's that's down and when, like, we're not sure and, you know, communication or any of that breaks down, your business partner gets involved and really helps to start kind of bridge those gaps.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And so we use a lot of these levers to sort of work within the organization and really ensure that everyone feels empowered to make Agero what it needs to be and what we want it to be.
Miriam Connaughton: So much goodness there to unpack. I mean, going back to the stories that you said are so important as part of purpose, that really resonated with me because we can sometimes superficially think, well, it's hard because you know, when we're not literally curing cancer here, or, you know, it seems very obvious in certain sectors, there's no way to think, Oh, that's clear to see that your mission is very purposeful and people connected.
Miriam Connaughton: But, but there's a human aspect to, you know, a lot of. of what you do. Like you said, you're meeting people off at the side of a freeway in the worst experience of their day or their week. And, you know, how do you bring that storytelling to the rest of the organization? How do you curate it and get it out there?
Keri-Lynn Pajer: I think it's evolved over the years and it continues to some is simple in the way of storytelling videos, that aspect of it. But I think one of the things that changed the game for us internally was we have a concept called the unsung hero and what this is recognizing, you know, people within the organization that you wouldn't normally see as our front line, but ultimately they are the people that are really pulling things together.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And so, for example, it's the last one we did is we had a unfortunate customer who was stuck on top of their car. And this agent went above and beyond and stay wasn't even part of their job, but stayed on the call to make sure to keep her calm and make sure that emergency services got to her and that the service provider was able to get to her, et cetera, but kept her calm and talked her through it.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And, you know, that's just an example. But when we talk about pride in your work and wanting to do your job, technically speaking, the job is. to dispatch a service provider and hang up and then check in if the service provider hasn't. This person wanted to stay with her because it's the human element and by sharing that broadly as an organization and recognizing and here comes that recognition piece too, right?
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Which is recognizing the value that that person had not only on Agero in our business, but that person as well in her life. really helps to connect the dots. So I think it's about bringing the real out and not just talking about the numbers and the strategy, but really the human aspect of what we do, because that's what keeps people where they are is the human aspect.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, no. Well said. I mean, you said yourself, what's your own motivation is feeling valued. It is just an innate human trait, isn't it? And it is about that when you appreciate someone. you are inherently appreciating something about them, you know, might be something you've also seen them do, but you're, you're talking about like your example of the agent is doing, you know, that was kindness.
Miriam Connaughton: That was empathy. And it was that willingness also to go above and beyond, which is a very definition of high engagement is, you know, I'm willing to go above and beyond the core requirements of my job. It's because I'm highly engaged, but I'm also very connected to that human element of what we do. I think that's a fabulous example.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Yeah. And to connect it back, the reason why that came about is exactly what I was saying earlier. It is the employee listening aspect and we'll break it down to a little data here. We went on an engagement survey. Do you know the strategy and are you motivated by the strategy came back as a little bit low results.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And then when we dug in a little bit more, it was because, yeah, it looks good on. paper right on the zoom call. But what does it really mean? And so we had to connect the dots there for people. And once we did that, that's where people, you know, our employees started to recognize like, oh, no, no, we really are making a difference here.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And here's my role within it. So then you take a step forward and you say, okay, so person in finance, what does this mean for you? And being able to track that back and be very intentional and doing that has a lot of value.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, through your storytelling example as well. I mean, part of that is, you know, you're recognizing people publicly because in that example, you know, you're sharing it as part of your stories through all the different channels that you have.
Miriam Connaughton: And, you know, so that's part of the recognition culture building as well, isn't it? That, you know, a lot about culture for me is it's the stories you tell. is what kind of creates and informs your culture. It's not the only thing, but it's a big thing. People, when you say, tell me about your culture, they'll tell stories like the example you just gave.
Miriam Connaughton: You mentioned something earlier when you were talking about connectivity and feeling valued. And part of that connectivity is that connectivity has to come through transparency. And part of that is trust building as well, as we've already touched on. So when you think about the role of transparency in engagement and interest building, sharing news and information is part of that.
Miriam Connaughton: But how else do you see transparency being kind of part of building high engagement and great culture?
Keri-Lynn Pajer: I think it's the key to it that most people have the hardest time with doing because transparency, true transparency, requires vulnerability. And that's sort of a icky word for some people, right?
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Vulnerability, being able to say, I don't know or working with somebody to build that trust. That's where you have to get involved and you have to really, you know, sit side by side and have a real conversation and again, going back to engagement in order for people to want to be where they are and stay motivated, they need to feel connected to the people they work with,
Keri-Lynn Pajer: the role they do and the organization they have. If they can't trust that those things and what they see and what they're doing is true, then they're not going to engage in it. And honestly, If you don't know that somebody is giving you the information and telling you the truth and being open about the work that you're doing at the base level all the way up to the organization leadership level of what we're trying to accomplish at an organization, it actually is a breeding ground for something much worse.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And so vulnerability is key to transparency. But most importantly, it's the aspect of knowing when and where. You've got to lean in on that. I think that was probably one of the hardest things that we had to do in our organization early on is be okay. sharing information. And again, the fear of sharing really comes from a lack of trust.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And so being able to give people a little bit and try it out and then give it a little bit more and then try it out. It's baby steps, but you can't have it without it.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, no, 100%. We've all had to redefine. and reimagine what connectivity is. And I think the reminder that kind of we may be, if we're honest, we're always underserving those people who were out there in the field, you know, often they were underserved and under-met in terms of communication and engagement.
Miriam Connaughton: So just interested how, you know, since that key event in world history, how have you redefined What connectivity is for you and how have you gone about kind of reestablishing, you know, just the ways and means of building that connectivity.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: I think fast forward a few years to where we are now, the world has changed.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: I don't know that we know the answer around hybrid remote and what that means. You see a lot of organizations who are, you know, forcing people back into the office more full time. You see other organizations saying we're going to be completely remote. Agero is a flexible work model, which means we do have a place for you to go into the office if you're in that area, but you're more than welcome to work remote.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And so we're still trying to figure that out. I think the piece that I do know is it will ever evolve. And honestly, I'm trying not to focus on the way connectivity was before because that no longer exists. And so I'm not gauging The organization or the employees or what we do on the previous way, but instead trying to recreate what connectivity looks like for us at Agero.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And I don't know that we have the answer just yet, but where I am really bullish on is that we do have a employee group that is very vocal and we have built that trust and that transparency. And so because we have done that, we have learned that some people like to work completely remote and they don't want to join certain events that are whether it is virtual or not.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And that's okay. We meet them where they are. And then there are other people that really value that in person culture. And so we create a space for that as well. And so I think it's about putting away the the what we used to do and gauging and scoring myself across that and instead trying to be really creative about what should it be and knowing that it's going to change.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, I think that's a healthy way of looking at it. You know, I think you said you touched on this earlier. Connectivity is a very emotional human thing. It's not defined by being in the same physical space, I office or wherever, because you can feel be in the office five days a week and feel quite disconnected.
Miriam Connaughton: Versus be working from home or out there in the field five days a week and feel super connected. You know, we see that in our data, don't we? When we do our engagement analysis and so forth, you can see those kinds of different segments coming through. So it is more about working at it at that human level, as you said earlier.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: So I'm an ambivert at heart. It's who I am. And in the role that I have, it's very interesting because most would take me as an extrovert, which yes, I can play in that space, but it is draining for me to do that. So if you think about. the role that I have and me being in an office five days a week. It's exhausting.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: I love my job, but it's exhausting. I enjoy it, and this is a better fit for me. And it actually does keep me connected to the organization and to what I do by being able to go in once a week or twice a week and then having my own like space at home. And so I think that's sort of this concept of we have a lot of people that just prefer to work behind a screen and now it's okay to say that that's okay instead of forcing people a little bit outside of their comfort zone where you don't get their true, authentic self.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: But I think it's ever evolving, quite honestly, and it's a gnarly situation to work through. But yeah, I think we're in a really great age to sort of figure this stuff out.
Miriam Connaughton: No, I agree. It's like flexibility. I think you can't roll it back and I think, nor should we want to really. It is about just, you know, I'm with you.
Miriam Connaughton: It is kind of from here on in, it's, it's changes. The only constants a cliche, but it's true. It's a cliche for a reason. Yes, it's, but I think it's that flexibility and diversity of working practices that I think we kind of always had just, but just in a different way. And then to your point, it's now about re imagining it and just keep on re imagining it because who knows what the future is going to hold.
Miriam Connaughton: There's going to be other things and other innovations. And I, I think there's a connection for me going back to the trust and transparency that you were sharing that you, you've really clearly invested a lot in and a key part of your culture. For me, a lot of that goes with your ability to. Be comfortable with this diversity of working practices because, you know, there's a lot of headlines around this about that productivity paradox where, you know, a lot of us report having that flexibility to work hybrid or remote.
Miriam Connaughton: We feel more productive yet managers often assume that people aren't being more productive. But at the core of that, for me, at least in part is if you trust that people are inherently good and hardworking and they're highly engaged and they they're connected and they're working hard and they're delivering.
Miriam Connaughton: I don't care where you work. I really don't. And, but that's, you know, I think for some, and as we've evolved and changing as the world continues to change, you know, I think there's a trust. I think going back to what you were saying earlier, I think when you have high trust for me, it allows you to do a lot of things, but I think it allows you to also be more accepting of change and be more open to kind of new ways of working when you've got that high trust in the culture.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: You're absolutely right. And I feel the same way. And I think what's interesting is there are a lot of managers out there that don't have that level of trust. And so they want to know where their people are at all times.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And they should be online between nine and five. and bringing your whole self to work. That's always a statement, right? That's, that's been out there for a while. And I think nowadays we really have trusted people to do that because so if my manager is trusting me to do the job and it's quality over quantity, so it is less about me sitting at my desk nine to five, how many times, and I'll admit this, I sat at my desk from nine to five and probably two hours.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Maybe more, but I won't admit fully to it, but like you're on your phone or you're like, you know, surfing the web or your, your brain needs a break. You can't be doing work nine to five. And so now people get to work when their brain is turned on, they get to take a break, take a rest. And like, so that level of trust and that level of flexibility also.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Again, if we connect it back, that actually does connect back to productivity because people work when they need to work, when their brain is working again, there are some roles and jobs out there that don't allow for that, of course, but our roles, you know, similar to the jobs that we have. I know that I am firing on all cylinders between seven and nine, and then I need to take a break and give my brain just a little bit of a moment.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And then I'm on my other two high productive hours are between two and four, not to say I'm not productive in the other ones, but it's just that's when my brain is, I'm firing on all cylinders. And I think allowing people that trust and that flexibility to work when they need to work is important.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah. Yeah. And again, it's like, you know, you, you can feel disconnected in the office. You can be unproductive in the office for sure. This isn't highly correlated.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Yeah. We all know those people that just, you know, walk around with their coffee cup all day. Right.
Miriam Connaughton: Naming no names.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, yeah, I think that whole agenda around connectivity, productivity, it's just a whole different frame of reference and we can't kind of not talk about as well with that idea of change in mind and how we're forever change is the role of technology in that, you know, a lot of what we've talked about today has been about that importance of the human connection.
Miriam Connaughton: And I'm 100 percent a believer that that is never going to go away as being the crucial important part of what fuels us as humans and what fuels us as organizations. But, you know, with more tech, we're all using more tech in the workplace. We're using tech to communicate. We're using tech to listen to employees, all of those things.
Miriam Connaughton: You know, how do you think about how you continue to keep connectivity very human communication, very human as the tech caution goes up in our organizations. How do you balance that?
Keri-Lynn Pajer: I feel like you're leaning towards the two letter, the two letter word we all have come to know as AI, which is a part of, you know, that overall tech.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: I think it would be naive of me to not realize and not welcome it. It's here. It's something that is really important. I'll take it back to the point of thinking of myself as a person before an employee. And as a person, I use technology all day long. My home runs on and I can't say her name because it'll it'll go off.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: But my home runs on that. And my Children, we have a shared calendar. And you know, I have messed around with Gemini and the chat bots and things, you know, in my personal life. So So knowing that that's who I am personally, I'd be naive not to think about it from an employee perspective as well and in an organization perspective.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And so our organization does run on technology. We are a technology company with a platform. And so the way that we keep people connected is through an intranet. It's through Slack. It's through Google. And so being able to leverage that in a way that employees can respond to quickly, I think, is really where we're being very intentional around.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: If you think about yourself and the amount of notifications that happen on your own personal device, it is hard to keep track of everything. And so you have to make it as simple as possible. And so I think that's where we're really putting a lot of effort right now is especially in the communication and engagement space is, you know, how do we make information easy to access when you're ready to access?
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And it's really about breaking it down of like, this is the must and this is the nice to know. And the nice to know is I'll get to it when I have a couple of minutes. And the must is this is important for me right now to the success of my job or whatever that is. I think what's interesting is that as AI come in, we as the HR Department have a responsibility to help the organization lean into it and not take the human element out of it.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: And I think that's the role that we play. And it's a really important and critical one. There are ways of using AI that are going to make us more efficient, more productive, are going to bring organizations fast track forward.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: But I think the important piece is making sure that in certain areas where applicable that we don't take that human element out of it. Because when we do, that's when I think things start to get dangerous.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, no, I couldn't agree with you more. And I think, you know, we're also, you can't open anything or click on anything without seeing AI somewhere in the, in the headline, but it's, we're still at the early stages, I think, relatively.
Miriam Connaughton: So when we think about it in terms of an innovation phase of innovation that we're in, still a lot to learn very early days. and I, I'm with you, you got, we've got to kind of feel our way because I think there are definitely, and we can see it ourselves, you know, some of the productivity gains, like you said, in your running your personal life, as well as at work, we can all see those kind of early possibilities of productivity gains of, like you said, personalize things more to the individual, like, Hey, notification, this is helpful.
Miriam Connaughton: I'm nudging you with something, you know, and the AI is helping us be more either productive or get things done, whatever it is, just aware of something. I'm looking for those kind of things that will benefit the human in the best possible way. And balancing, like you say, there's an ethical, I think, and moral responsibility to just make sure that we're being responsible about whichever AI we're using or introducing into the workplace.
Miriam Connaughton: And then also balancing that, thinking about the impact on the individual. as well and on the human because it can be scary, various degrees of scary, depending on where you're coming from, what your comfort level is, the risk that is genuine for some of us, that it's taking aspects of our job away.
Miriam Connaughton: There's definitely a fear factor there. So it really is a balancing act. I think like any major change, it has upsides. It has downsides. come at it thoughtfully.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Yeah, I completely agree.
Miriam Connaughton: I could keep going for hours and hours with you. But we're kind of coming to the end of our time here. It has been so insightful.
Miriam Connaughton: Thank you for sharing your story. Before we depart, our listeners sometimes like to connect with our guests. So if you're open to that, where, how, where and how can kind of people best find you and maybe connect with you or connect with a company as you know, if they would wish to.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: Yeah, absolutely. So I would love that.
Keri-Lynn Pajer: I am on LinkedIn, Keri-Lynn Pajer. And feel free to also check out Agero.com. You can reach me there as well. And thank you, Miriam. This has been a wonderful, wonderful experience. It was been great talking to you.
Miriam Connaughton: Likewise. And thanks to everybody listening out there. Really appreciate it.