This episode features an interview with two distinguished executives from Gainsight, the leader in Customer Success software. Robin Merritt is the SVP and Chief of Staff & Community, and previously served as Global Head of Internal Communications at Box. Karl Mosgofian is the Chief Information Officer. He comes to Gainsight after previously serving as CIO of Harmonic, the publicly-traded leader in virtualized cable access and live video streaming. On this episode, Robin and Karl dive into best practices for how IT and Comms can work together. They also share why the roles of CIO and Chief of Staff will converge even more in the future, and what they wish they knew earlier in their careers.
This episode features an interview with two distinguished executives from Gainsight, the leader in Customer Success software. Robin Merritt is the SVP and Chief of Staff & Community, and previously served as Global Head of Internal Communications at Box. Karl Mosgofian is the Chief Information Officer. He comes to Gainsight after previously serving as CIO of Harmonic, the publicly-traded leader in virtualized cable access and live video streaming.
On this episode, Robin and Karl dive into best practices for how IT and Comms can work together. They also share why the roles of CIO and Chief of Staff will converge even more in the future, and what they wish they knew earlier in their careers.
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Episode Timestamps:
*(2:12) - How Robin got interested in comms
*(3:59) - How Karl got interested in IT
*(5:23) - Robin’s current role at Gainsight
*(6:39) - Karl’s current role at Gainsight
*(7:50) - Segment: Storytime
*(16:20) - Segment: Getting Tactical
*(22:28) - The evolution of IT & Comms and what the future looks like
*(30:38) - Segment: Asking For a Friend
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Links
Connect with Robin on LinkedIn
[00:01:53] Amanda: So Robin, Karl, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm super excited to have you both here before we get too far into details. I want to start with each of you and learn a little bit more about your background and what got you interested in your field. So Robin, let's start with you. How did you get interested in communications?
[00:02:16] Robin: You know, kind of happened a little bit serendipitously. So my career has been in three chapters. I started in a go to market role in say, And I've been in different industries, started to get intrigued by the idea of communications, the states back to in college. I remember being in college and saying, everybody else has this focus area.
[00:02:37] They know they want to be a nurse or they know exactly what major they want and I couldn't figure out. And I remember thinking to myself, well, I don't have. You know, concrete skillset and someone said, you're a great communicator said, well, what good is that going to do me? I did end up getting a major in communication, but I'm sure as, as anybody, who's a number of years into their career, I suppose the major doesn't always [00:03:00] matter as much in that particular.
[00:03:02] And it turns out it served me very well. So once I switched into technology, I was in chapter two of my career, which was in the executive talent space. And then we started to spin up a internal communications function. It was brand new at the company I was at, which was box. And we were looking for a leader to come in and lead the charge on that.
[00:03:22] Because of the work I had already done at box and the relationship with the CEO, it was a really natural career progression. I'm so very fortunate to have been selected for that role. And then it sort of lit this fire of excitement, enthusiasm for a space that I knew I loved, but didn't quite know exactly what that might look like from a career perspective.
[00:03:41] And it kind of just rolled from there. And now I'm at Gainsight in part doing communication. I want to
[00:03:46] Amanda: come back to that, that you spinning up internal communications of box. I want to come back to that cause that's such a common, I think experience a lot of internal communications folks have quoting myself.
[00:03:57] So I'd love to get some thoughts on that, but Carlo and move over [00:04:00] to you. How did you get interested in it?
[00:04:03] Karl: I was your classic computer nerd kid. And so for me, I knew what I was really into very early and I was lucky in that way. And so. I just went out into the world and started doing computer stuff and.
[00:04:16] Started a little business doing computer consulting, work for a bunch of different companies and eventually kind of got on a track that led me to being a CIO. I think I've been really fortunate to have the opportunity to do a lot of different things. Oftentimes people get kind of siloed into some part of it.
[00:04:33] And while I'm certainly, I would say primarily an applications person, I did have the opportunity to work in a lot of different areas. And I also got a chance to be an enterprise architect for awhile, which I think really helped prepare me for this job. So it's one of the things that I always suggest to people that they look for those opportunities.
[00:04:52] And certainly don't be afraid of them to get out of your comfort zone to do something different. Ultimately, it's just going to make you better, [00:05:00] if nothing else, at what you do as your core skill. And it makes you someone who could potentially be a C. Yeah.
[00:05:07] Amanda: That's one, one piece of advice I hear consistently from people when I talk to them about their careers and the way that I've always felt is don't over plan your career, right.
[00:05:14] Be, be open to those different experiences that are commanding that's super important because you just don't know where that can take you. I totally agree. Yeah, absolutely. I want to, you're both from Gainsight. I just want to understand a little bit more about what each of you do there. So Robin, can you just give me a synopsis of what you do at Gainsight as a senior vice president and chief of staff?
[00:05:33] Robin: Absolutely. So I'm sure if there are any other chiefs of staff listening, they will commiserate with this role is very distinct and different company to company. So depending on who you're talking to, the role may look very different. So the way it looks and has evolved over the past three or so years that I've been at Gainsight is I'm sort of charged.
[00:05:53] Delivering world-class execution at Gainsight across a variety of different programs and processes that we [00:06:00] run so that we can kind of evangelize Gainsight strategy. And then also of course, as any chief of staff can attest to scale the CEO. All that is with this umbrella of the human first movement that we're on.
[00:06:12] So Gainsight's mission is to be living proof that you can win in business while being human first. This idea that those two things are not mutually exclusive, they can co-exist and quite frankly, add value to one another. And so I would say the umbrella over everything I do is figuring out how to accelerate this human first movement.
[00:06:32] Give back to our community, engage with our community of customer success professionals and product experience. Carl
[00:06:39] Amanda: let's move on to you. Can you talk a little bit more about your, your role at Gainsight as a CIO?
[00:06:44] Karl: Sure. Uh, well, internally I have the typical. Kind of areas that a CIO would have. So enterprise applications, it, operations and security was a little bit of a twist that for us security includes product security.[00:07:00]
[00:07:00] It's a, a bigger function that it would be in a company that's not a SAS company and actually having to worry about not just internal laptops. Firewalls and things, but actually the securing a product, but then I've got this other hat that I wear, which I love actually, which is external. So I connect with the CEOs of some of our customers help them where I can be another point of contact I've gained sight.
[00:07:25] I think sometimes those kinds of relationships are just fantastic because they're period. Right. So there's sort of, you're speaking the same language. And, um, so I really enjoy that, that aspect of the job and getting to engage outside of our four walls, so to speak and, uh, or at least our virtual four walls nowadays and, uh, actually get, uh, get to meet our current.
[00:07:49] Amanda: I want to move into our next segment called story time.
[00:07:59] Robin: So
[00:07:59] Amanda: I'm going to [00:08:00] ask each of you to help, help paint a picture for us. I'm going to start with you, Robin. You both have various. I've careers, Robin, I want to start with you cause your crumbs, your communications career took a huge leap forward after becoming the global head of internal communications at box in 2015.
[00:08:17] You just previously mentioned in our first segment about how you spun up an internal communications program. I wonder if you could just talk, I love to hear your experience doing that challenges you ran into, um, and successes you had with that.
[00:08:31] Robin: Sure. Yeah. Some happy to. And um, so I think the. Pivot from chapter two, as I was saying before of this executive talent space, I would say, and this is probably something that I'm sure other people across other chief of staff roles.
[00:08:48] And Carl kind of touched on it too, from the external focus and how important those relationships are. I would say that was probably the biggest linchpin and probably the skill that I continue to use the most, especially when it [00:09:00] comes to, if we were just looking at the internal communication space, building those relationships.
[00:09:05] Part of why I was even considered for the job. If you were to look at my resume prior to that, it's not like I had done this at scale at a 2000 person publicly traded company before. And so I think the relationships that I had built across different functions, particularly with executives and that credibility went a really long way.
[00:09:24] And so you have. And this is something I learned early in my career. This how I would sort of bucket is values, abilities, and skills in order of importance. And so do you have values alignment with the company and is there sort of a, a mutual agreement of what values are fundamental to you? What abilities do you have?
[00:09:43] And so I would say communication and relationship building. And then I think your company takes a bet on you with the skills, if you've haven't done the job before. And I think that was a big part of that pivot that I made is whatever we need to figure out at box. I can figure it out from a skills [00:10:00] capacity.
[00:10:00] And so that was kind of the catalyst. So from a challenge perspective, I was the first person at box to do that job. We had never had someone at any level run, internal communication. And so when you look at internal versus external, external is this well-known well-oiled machine people understand the value of press releases.
[00:10:22] They understand the value of investor relations and how to prepare for that. They understand the value of crisis communication. So, what I find is a hiccup that that box encountered. And I think honestly, any company is when you go to implement internal communication at an at-scale company, a lot of the early part of the job is unwinding and undoing what I lovingly call bad behavior.
[00:10:45] So having tool Topia, where you have 10 different channels to communicate, but there's no clean agreement around where do we go for? What type of communication and how do we do that? So I would say without doubt, Figuring out in partnership and actually it's really [00:11:00] great that Carlos. Our CIO back at box was my biggest counterpart and advocate.
[00:11:04] In terms of what tools do we use, how are we thoughtful about it, getting some data and information there, which is very much under Karl's sort of wheelhouse at Gainsight as well. And then my job was okay, well, how do we reshape the structure of internal communications so that people are effective, they're accelerating their careers.
[00:11:23] They know where to go to find information. They understand what our goals are and they understand how they then can go every day and sit at their desk and contribute to those goals from a wind perspective. Being able to come out. The other side of that with those clean agreements about where do we go and what do we do certainly was a win.
[00:11:41] But I have to say that the biggest highlight was I think the cultural impact of having a systematized or streamlined approach to internal communication. That is where, what I would hang my hat on. Because if you were to, if you were to maybe ask the average box employee, when I [00:12:00] departed the company, um, and we had a team, and so this is definitely a very cross-functional effort.
[00:12:05] I just had the pleasure of sort of leading the charge. If you were to ask them, do we have internal communications? What value does it serve? Have you, have you gained value from us being thoughtful about how and what we communicate across our employees? I believe the answer would be. Yes. And I think the biggest sweet spot is I think it created a lot of joy and a lot of fun, and it evangelized our values in a way that was really special and very authentic to the culture and the community and brought people together across different language, languages and regions and cultural divides in a way that I think is really special and, and was sort of table stakes for quality internal communications and something I'm particularly proud.
[00:12:49] Amanda: You brought up something I want to get into a little bit more at the both of you, as you talked about this human first movement and building tools to help do that. I want to get to that at first, Carl real quickly. I want to [00:13:00] touch on your background a little bit. I listened to a podcast you were on, and you mentioned your teenage years, you were interested in computers like databases to outline your baseball card collection.
[00:13:11] Maybe not so much video games. Um, and that, that maybe love for tech has grown stronger throughout your career, but can you share a little bit more about your specific interest with it, with computers and tech, you know, at large and how the rise of the internet has changed, maybe how you feel or how you see technology?
[00:13:31] Karl: Yeah, I mean, I was a very specific kind of nerd, you know, and, and I loved databases. I loved keeping track of things. I loved organizing things and. I loved business process. So as soon as I had the opportunity, when I got out in the world and said, Hey, I know how to write programs and who needs that?
[00:13:50] Whatever very quickly became was a business analyst, right? Because what you figure out very quickly is writing programs is not the hard part, understanding what people are trying to accomplish. And [00:14:00] actually accomplishing that is the hard part. And I love that. I loved sort of going behind the curtain and learning how all these different kinds of businesses operated.
[00:14:08] Right. So I went to work for a law firm and I built a legal time of billing system for them. And I learned all about how things work at a law firm. And I loved that. And then I went to a place that did microfiche. Is this strange business where all we did was took in pieces of paper from people, took pictures of it and then, right.
[00:14:26] But it was a giant filing an organization problem. Right. So I just, the way my brain was wired was sort of perfect for it because that's exactly what this job is. Uh, and so it was great. It was just a, it was a natural fit. So it's been a, you know, that's really kind of been the underlying thing in my, in my career.
[00:14:48] There's an interesting sidelight, which might derail us a little bit. So maybe I'll mention it when we come back to it, if you want to get into it more, but there's an interesting parallel between how it works and the way I [00:15:00] think of it working and customer success, right? Because they're both all about making sure your customers achieve their outcomes.
[00:15:07] And I think that the idea of it has sort of throwing technology out there and then walking away. Right. Like that doesn't work in the same way for our customers to just sell a product to their customer and then walk away. It doesn't work. You don't get adoption, you don't get the value, you don't achieve your outcomes.
[00:15:27] And so. Ultimately when push comes to shove, uh, your customers may turn on you, right? Because they're like, well, we may like you and everything, but we're not really getting the outcomes. And so what the internet has done has been to create the opportunity for my internal customers of it to turn on. So in the same way that our customers aid to make sure their customers are getting their outcomes.
[00:15:55] I have to make sure our internal customers, my users [00:16:00] are actually getting what they need from me. Because if they don't, they're going to go online and they're going to whip out their credit card and they're going to go fire up their own thing somewhere. And then I'm going to have a big mess and security problems and all sorts of issues.
[00:16:12] And so to me, it's all, it's all kind of one thing around helping people achieve their outcomes, being the key to success. We're
[00:16:20] Amanda: going to go right into that, but I want to let's move into our next segment is called getting tactical,
[00:16:25] Karl: um, trying to figure out tactics and it'd be prayerful honest, and I didn't have to worry about tactics too much.
[00:16:31] Here I am in charge and driving to say, why didn't you sleep some tactics,
[00:16:35] Sponsor: tactics
[00:16:37] Amanda: so we can dig a little bit. I think what, what we were getting out with that last question for me, I'm so super glad to have you both on here to talk about like communications it and sort of where they intersect, especially given the employee experience and how it's moved digital.
[00:16:55] You know, there may, we may have people listening whose company has always been remote or allowed remote, [00:17:00] but now we've got a whole, a lot, a whole lot more of employees at they're working remote. And so this, this idea of it and communications and how enabling people to live in company culture and understand value, you know, what our value is different because it's all driven a lot by it now.
[00:17:17] So I'd like to hear from each of you, first of all, thinking. When you're looking at thinking about the digital employee experience, how should it and communications work together to ensure that there is an outstanding employee, digital employee experience. Robin, let's start with you.
[00:17:34] Robin: Oh, good. I have a lot of energy around that and I think, uh, I think Carl and I are probably very well aligned on this front.
[00:17:42] I'm so glad you asked this question. I think. The it relationship and strategy is mission critical when it comes to a quality. Experience and internal culture, irrespective of COVID. I think COVID [00:18:00] catalyzed the direction that the work environment was already moving. It just ended up accelerating the movement in my opinion.
[00:18:07] So people were already yearning for the flexibility. Yearning to move to lower cost living places. And prior to going into the pandemic situation, Gainsight was always a very remote friendly. In fact, remote employees were our largest office, if you will. And now we've really pivoted our value proposition for working at Gainsight to a remote first environment, not just remote friends.
[00:18:31] And so that means that we have to figure out how to create hybrid experiences that allow us to be connected and meet teammates across different regions and allow people who are living in different places, or aren't comfortable traveling or can't travel because they, you know, have a small child at home and there are a single caregiver or something like that.
[00:18:51] We have to create hybrid experiences that allow people to have. You know, kind of epic moments of connection and get the information they need to be successful [00:19:00] at Gainsight, whether they are coming to an event in person or they are joining from a hybrid virtual environment. And so what we've actually done is we have shifted internal events.
[00:19:11] Kind of strategy and ownership from our marketing team actually on to my team so that we have a centralized team, the centralized unit who's focused on how do we do that? Well, on what cadence do we do it? Do we do virtual only for this event? Do we do hybrid? Do we do in person? What are, you know, what's the thought process?
[00:19:30] And so when we think about hybrid or virtual, only the platform we choose and the tool that we choose to communicate the technology is insanely important because it, it makes or breaks both the content that you're delivering and the experience you create. And so you see a lot of companies reinventing Hoppin is a great example of reinventing what that journey is actually going to look like for teammates.
[00:19:53] And how do you replicate and scale some of those interpersonal connection? Those sort of coffee chats [00:20:00] or meet you over drinks, experiences to deliver a similar outcome. I'll pause there. Carl, maybe I'll pass it to you.
[00:20:09] Karl: Yeah. I mean, I also have a ton of passion around this and because what I think is that this is not a technology problem.
[00:20:17] I do not think that we are lacking in tools. I think if anything, we have too many tools. And Robin your, your experience in box of trying to figure out how to guide people, right. With so many different channels. I think that's only gotten even more complex. And so I think now there's no way that Robin or I can solve this problem by ourselves.
[00:20:42] We have to work together. Uh, and I think that. Saying here's a tool like slack or teams. It just throwing that out in the environment, uh, is just not nearly enough. Right? There's got to be some norms of behavior. There's gotta be some sense of what do we do doing [00:21:00] in slack versus what do we do an email?
[00:21:01] Why do I use one versus the other, uh, that kind of guidance now is extremely important. And in the absence of it, you find people saying it's driving me crazy because I know this document is somewhere in this. But I've got like five different places. I have to go check to try and to try and find it. And so I think that more and more, that's going to be the big challenge that we have for a long time.
[00:21:25] The challenge was we didn't have all these. Right. And so we were working with sort of suboptimal technology and trying to make it work. Now, I think we have the opposite problem. We have, we have a usage problem and that's where people like Robin are just absolutely key. And that's why I think this is a role that needs to be really taken seriously in a company because without it, you've just got a bunch of technology and people running around all over the place.
[00:21:49] It's not necessarily that effective.
[00:21:51] Amanda: Um, when I, I love thinking about this, I have a lot of passion for this as well, just as you both do. I, I often sit around and think about more than even just that digital employee [00:22:00] experience. I think about the digital human experience that we're interacting with. You know, Robin, you mentioned some of the small child, we have pets at home sneezing during, during we're interacting with each other.
[00:22:12] In our human lives, um, and how much more we have to think about kind of what you said there crawl the rules and how we interact with each other. What technologies we use is the message, how we, how we crafted. I love this topic I'm doing as much as I can dig, digging into it. Just thinking about the future of this, you know, how do we, how do we evolve this experience?
[00:22:33] I'm wondering if either of you have any just quick insights on how we can, um, evolve this experience and work really well together. You know, HR it internal communications to make sure that people are getting the most bang for their buck when they're buck, when they're at work and, and we're reaching out them appropriately
[00:22:52] Robin: first thought is when I think of an antiquated vision for the value of.
[00:22:59] Uh, [00:23:00] CIO or, or it, and the value of HR at Gainsight, we call it teammate's success, which I think is a very intentional kind of mind shift about the value that that team offers. I think oftentimes if the charter is not clear about what we're mutually and collectively trying to solve for, and the charter of in our case teammate's success and the charter of the it org isn't clear, people think.
[00:23:25] Of HR is the place you go to, to log into your benefits. And it is the place you go when you can't figure out how to find something on your computer. And I think we do a very good job at Gainsight of placing an insanely strategic value on these businesses and include if these organizations within a business and including them in part of the strategic decision making, because they're instrumental, we cannot operate without.
[00:23:50] And so I think setting that clear charter, those clear expectations is step one. Let me pause there. I'll pass it to you Carl and see, I'm sure you have plenty to add to.
[00:23:58] Karl: Yeah. I mean, I think, [00:24:00] I think it really does come down to some of those rules. Rules of the road or engagement, but also norms. Right. And which is as much about setting examples, I think, as, as anything else.
[00:24:11] But I think it's extremely important. And if you want to take a human centered approach to this, you really need to be thoughtful. And not just sort of let it happen. Things like, do people always turn their cameras on or is it okay to turn your camera off sometimes? So I, I think actually I think there's two sides of this coin.
[00:24:32] One is making people effective. I think the other is not burning them out. Right. So I think that's something we've gotta be, we've gotta be really thoughtful about. And how do we create the safety, the sense of company. That it's okay to turn your camera off sometimes. And maybe some meetings happened with everybody's camera off so that it sort of sets the example and it's okay to do that sometimes.
[00:24:54] Right. I think things like that start to become very important and they absolutely play [00:25:00] into teammate's success because that's the kind of thing when people get burned out. That, you know, it reduces their, their effectiveness and it also ultimately may make them leave. And we want, we don't want that.
[00:25:13] Right. We don't want that. We don't want people to have that kind of experience here, frankly, because of the values we have as a company. That's just not, that's not what we're here to do to create a place that burns people out. Now it's a tough, it's a tough challenge, right? I mean, we all know what it's like to be on zoom all day long, and there's only so much you can do.
[00:25:33] To reduce the pain of that, but I'm a big believer that there's always something you can do. So, one thing I do not like is people start throwing their hands up saying, well, I guess that's just the way it is. Like, there's always something you can do within your team, within your company, whatever level you have the ability to, to have that control, including things as simple as having some of your one-on-one meetings with team members, be just fine.[00:26:00]
[00:26:00] Once in a while just to set that example. Right? So it can be, it's funny how a lot of this stuff, it's not necessarily a big stuff. It used to be with him. Oh, we're going to roll out this big telecommunication software and we're going to put cameras in all the rooms and that's how we're going to achieve this thing.
[00:26:14] I think now we've got technology coming out our ears. We've got to figure out how to use it in a way that enables us to stay human and stay safe. And
[00:26:22] Robin: set boundaries too. I love what you've said, Carl. It's all about, I think we used to live in a world where you would go to work at eight and you would have this boundary between I'm at home.
[00:26:32] I get in my car, I go to work and at the end of the day, whatever end up day, look like for you. I close my laptop. I leave work. I get my car. I go home and there is this kind of cognitive shift between how you're spending your day. And we don't have that. Blends, you know, from one way to the other. So w we're Carl just mentioned, we also do a lot of walking meetings and we do recharge days to give people time to not get burnt out.
[00:26:55] And the one sort of addition I would add on that, Carl just made me think of. [00:27:00] We have shifted how we actually allocate time when we do get together in person, we've been very intentional because you're missing those micro moments of seeing someone over coffee and having this impromptu 15 minute catch-up or sitting next to someone at your desk and laughing about something that's totally irrelevant or bringing your dogs to the office or whatever that looked like for you.
[00:27:21] We're missing those micro moments of connection. And so, whereas we might have had 70%. 30% connection. When we got together at an in-person event, we flipped it on our head and we are focused on networking, connection, fun, joy, things that really celebrate our values. Celebrate our teammates. We do talent shows, things like that.
[00:27:42] And probably 30% of it is content because to Carl's point, we have the tools. I can get you the content. No problem. I can send it to you in 10 seconds on slack, in an email. Whatever. So, um, I think that intentional shift in how you spend time to really drive connection in those moments, [00:28:00] it really matters from a human perspective, like you were talking.
[00:28:03] Amanda: Yeah, I think for me, one that I would like to see more places address. I know I've ran into this and this when I'm remote, but nobody else on my team is remote. So they're all going to be sitting in a room together and I'm going to be on the screen over here while they're having those moments of.
[00:28:18] Talking. Oh, you know, I saw something that I did anyone feel that earthquake I'm in Milwaukee. So, um, but you know, just those moments that when, when they do go back, I'll miss, and I'm hoping that there's real thought put around that at any company that has a lot of remote folks and then people will be going back to the.
[00:28:36] Karl: Yeah, that that's an area by the way, where technology does play a, I think a big role, you know, one of the phrases I'm starting to hear people use that I sorta like cause equal citizenship. Right. So how do you, how do you make the people dialing in and the people in the room on an equal footing and in the past, I think we lived with stuff that we shouldn't have been.
[00:28:54] We shouldn't have. Right. So in the old days, the people dialed in were not really as engaged in the meeting. They [00:29:00] couldn't get a word in edgewise. Uh, and we, and we lived with it and we shouldn't have, but now I think that's just unacceptable. Right? Cause we're used to this frankly, more democracy. Kind of meeting.
[00:29:10] There are a lot of downsides to spending all day on zoom, but there's some good things too. And one is, nobody is advantaged because they're in the room versus not. So then as people for us, as we start looking at opening offices, again, at some point, what that looks like to be in more of a hybrid world, uh, or just events, like how do we keep that as best we can.
[00:29:31] I had a recent sort of epiphany, which is when people want to do a fancy. Conference room. They always put like that one cool camera on the end of like a long table. And it's a cool concept. And it seems like a great idea, but it doesn't actually work, but you can't actually see anybody's face and you can't tell who's talking and I'm like, this is stupid.
[00:29:52] People spend a lot of money on these systems. I'm not sure that they're actually accomplishing that much other than to make you feel good that you've spent a lot of money in [00:30:00] your conference room and it's cool. So I'm trying to figure out how do we create a much better experience so that the people in the room in the meeting are still each getting like a single frame of their face so that people can actually see them.
[00:30:15] So things like that are areas where technology can make a huge difference. And so that's, that's an area we're really looking into quite quite intently.
[00:30:23] Amanda: Well, it sounds like you should write off. I should write a blog on how to do it better. This is a great time to come up with some of those like 10 commandments of it.
[00:30:32] Robin: He has a few good ones. He's got some, uh, some really good ones.
[00:30:37] Amanda: Well, let's get into our last segment. It's called asking for a friend.
[00:30:44] Karl: Hey. Asking for a friend.
[00:30:53] Amanda: I'm going to ask you all each some questions just as if we were asking for a friend and you give some advice. So, first one I want to start with [00:31:00] for each of you, what is one important piece of advice you would give someone who's starting out either in comms or it team who's interested in the field, but doesn't know if it's for them.
[00:31:10] Robin let's
[00:31:10] Robin: start with you. Absolutely. Well, I, if you are interested in communications and there is anyone who is doing internal communications, specifically a little trickier with external communication because of the stakeholders, but if you have a. Teammates or someone who's running that at your company.
[00:31:28] I bet you, they are looking for help and they are probably under-resourced and kind of strapped. And so one suggestion is offer to get involved in the, the next all hands or. Event that this person is putting on to help offer them some resources or learn help to get into the deck that's being created or the content that's being presented or offer to help them come up with an activity that will make people feel connected or, you know, something that's kind of uniquely aligned to the company culture or values.
[00:31:59] And [00:32:00] it's a good way to sort of get your feet in that. Learn from someone who's probably doing the job and kind of dip your toe in the water. If you will see if it's something that you're actually interested in most internal comms teams, because it's kind of a nascent role that hasn't necessarily been around for decades and decades, where people have seen it as valuable as, you know, a sales leader or something like that means that they hire one person who's probably of.
[00:32:25] And this person is super strapped because all of a sudden people very quickly realize that this is very valuable to the business and they just haven't caught up with hiring and building and scaling the team.
[00:32:35] Amanda: Carl, what about you? Same question. IT-based
[00:32:38] Karl: yeah, I mean, I think most jobs you have to do it to learn.
[00:32:43] Right. You can go to school, you can read books, you can do a lot of things, but you got to get out and do it. And so I think that would be my biggest advice would be try and do a lot of different things, try and find opportunities to not be in a silo. And so, for instance, if you're in a job, [00:33:00] let's say in a big company and they're like, listen, we just want you to do this one piece.
[00:33:03] Okay. That's great. But maybe in your off time, Go find like a nonprofit that's desperate to have someone to come and help them with their ID. And run their whole email server and their website and their database. Believe me, the world is full of people who need you, who would love your help. And you'll get this amazing experience because you won't be one of a huge team.
[00:33:28] You may be like the person who's just doing it. And it may be a little scary and you've got to go Google a bunch of things and figure them out. But boy, will you learn a lot? So look for opportunities to gain experience, not necessarily just at war. Last question.
[00:33:42] Amanda: What do you each see as the next big shift in it or communications in the next five to 10 years?
[00:33:49] And how should we prepare for it? So, Carl, let's start with you this time. What do you see as the next big shift in it, in the next five to 10 years?
[00:33:55] Karl: Well, I'll give, I'll give one answer, which is for both, which is [00:34:00] convergence, right? So I think one shift we're going to see is that the blur, the lines are gonna be.
[00:34:06] Between comms and it, and we're going to work very closely together. Uh, and I, and I think in some organization, jewel even see some it folks who are in the comms organization or vice versa, like I think we're going to be working very, very closely together. I think the other thing is, you know, there's just obviously with the SAS movement, It no longer controls everything in the way that they used to.
[00:34:32] And to some extent, companies can, can still try and enforce that with rules and regulations and policies, but at the end of the day, business groups and end users are empowered. And I, I just think we need to embrace that and not try and resist it because I don't think we can. And I think there's a lot good about that, but it has got to find a way to work with.
[00:34:57] And certainly here at Gainsight, [00:35:00] I would say I see my role as much more of a coordinator and facilitator and sort of enterprise architect. Then someone who centrally manages everything that's going on in all the teams. And I think it's, I think it's working pretty well. You've still got to have some governance.
[00:35:17] You've got to have security. There's uh, there's some things that it can be. Better frankly, than any of the one groups can do. Right. You've got things like data integration or data warehouses. They're sort of shared resources for everybody. So I think it still has an extremely important role to play, but I think the mindset needs to shift.
[00:35:36] From frankly, a more dictatorial role to one, that's more of a coordination.
[00:35:42] Robin: I completely agree. And, and so my answer to that is very much of a yes. And on something that Carl touched on early in the conversation and just actually touched on again. So it's, it's really a nice full circle. There's been this paradigm shift in the power of the customer.
[00:35:59] It's the [00:36:00] reason why Gainsight is in business. And what Carl was mentioning earlier is. Back in the day, you know, the vendor was at the center of this diagram and all the customers floated around them and we didn't get to choose. You had one place to go buy a laptop. You had one place to go buy a landline.
[00:36:16] And if it was broken, you were loyal to them because you had to be. And now the is at the center of. Shift and they have the power of choice, which is what Carl was mentioning earlier. And so from a communication perspective, both, both internally and externally, that I think kind of holistically how we communicate with our buyers and our customers.
[00:36:36] With our shareholders with our partners, with our employees means because the employees have the power of choice too. This is definitely a talent market. And so the people looking for jobs really have the power of choice. And so it's on us to figure out how we create some intentionality around how we communicate and what experience we deliver through communication so that our customers, our employees understand the value [00:37:00] and they want to be part of that journey with.
[00:37:02] I think
[00:37:03] Amanda: this really ties back to where we started. Right? There's going to be changed if you, if you just let you know, help me, help, help make the change help. Don't be too focused. And this is the way it should be. It always has been, but a lot of opportunity to, to really change the industry. Well, Robin, Carl, I seriously have like 30 more questions that I wanted to ask you.
[00:37:24] So
[00:37:26] Robin: our pleasure.
[00:37:27] Amanda: Yeah. This has been a lot of fun before I let you go. Um, I wanna, I want you to let our listeners know where they can find each of you and if there's anything else you would like them to know. So Carl, let's start with you to let our listeners know where they can find you. And if there's anything else you want them to know before we sign off for the day.
[00:37:44] Karl: People can find me on LinkedIn and it's easy because I have a funny name, so I'm easy to find. And I think the last thought I would, I would give folks is that when I became a CIO, what I discovered was the [00:38:00] greatest thing about it or other CEOs and the kind of network that, that we have. And it made me realize that earlier in my career, I should have been networking a lot more than I was.
[00:38:13] And so now that I've sort of discovered how fantastic that is. It's something that I always try and pass along to other folks and in it, or even outside of it, find other people who do what you do and connect with them. And it's never been easier, right? Somewhere there's a slack channel or a forum or someplace where you can connect and wow.
[00:38:35] Just had so much richness to not just your ability to do your job and how, how smart you are, but also just to your life and the kind of friends that you make and the connections you make with people who get your world. Right. And so honestly, like, I, I couldn't do this job without my CIO friends and the network that I've created.
[00:38:55] And so I just always urge other people to look for those opportunities. And if [00:39:00] they don't get. Created just say, Hey, I'm creating this network, put it out into the world. You'll be amazed at how people will, will find it.
[00:39:10] Amanda: Um, Robin, let people know where to find you. And if there's any parting words, you'd love, love
[00:39:14] to
[00:39:14] Robin: put out there.
[00:39:15] Yes, I will keep mine pretty short because I could not have said it any better than, than Carl. I would just plus, plus, plus everything he said. The network is so instrumental. Um, so I'm also on LinkedIn. My name is slightly shorter than Carl, so hopefully it's easy to find. And I also love the connection. I love to jump on networking calls and I find, I mean, I don't know about you Carl, but I find that.
[00:39:41] When people reach out asking for advice and I get on the call, I end up learning just as much. And if, for nothing more than going through my thought process on how and why did we do it the way that we did, because maybe I learned something around, well, actually that didn't make sense. And now that I say it out loud, I think I could have done that [00:40:00] differently, or people who have one of our values at Gainsight is shoshin, which is the concept of a beginner's mind.
[00:40:05] So looking at things without the lens of being an expert, but with the lens of saying, I've never seen this before, how do I think differently? How do I use a beginner's mind? And so when I'm talking to someone who's maybe earlier in their communication career earlier in their chief of staff career, It is so valuable for me and hopefully for them too, when we kind of talk through the challenges or how we're organizing you name it.
[00:40:30] So anytime I would, I would love to connect with anybody if they'd like to brainstorm.
[00:40:35] Amanda: Well, I might take you up on that personally. So look out well, thank you both again for joining me today. This has been great. Thank you very much. Thanks
[00:40:44] Robin: for
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