This episode features an interview with Shawnee Irmen-De Anda, Chief People Officer at Thriveworks. Shawnee has two decades of experience serving as a human resources strategic business partner for growing and well-established healthcare organizations. At Thriveworks, Shawnee leads a first-class people strategy, focusing on expanding team potential and empowering sustainable growth. In this episode, Amanda sits down with Shawnee to discuss creating brand awareness while recruiting, incorporating tech into the employee experience, and fighting burnout during times of crisis.
This episode features an interview with Shawnee Irmen-De Anda, Chief People Officer at Thriveworks. Shawnee has two decades of experience serving as a human resources strategic business partner for growing and well-established healthcare organizations. At Thriveworks, Shawnee leads a first-class people strategy, focusing on expanding team potential and empowering sustainable growth.
In this episode, Amanda sits down with Shawnee to discuss creating brand awareness while recruiting, incorporating tech into the employee experience, and fighting burnout during times of crisis.
-------------------
“I think in healthcare, technology should always enhance but not replace that human-to-human connection. It's really easy to leverage technology to save money at times, but that human-to-human connection is critically important. It's the same principle that we adhere to when we're looking at providing therapeutic care. Technology should also make the day-to-day functions of our teams easier, not harder or longer. At times if technology isn't working, we know the frustrations and added gray hair that that can have also. Having an intranet or centralized resource repositories, things like that for employees, is really important. Healthcare is one where you're either extremely advanced, and I think more hospital systems, things like that tend to have more up-to-date technology, or you're extremely outdated with the technology that you have. We're really lucky to have a tech and product team here that their sole purpose and what they really and truly want to do every day is make sure that our clinicians can do what they're here to do. And that's see clients, not have to battle technology challenges.” – Shawnee Irmen-De Anda
-------------------
Episode Timestamps:
*(04:27): Shawnee’s role at Thriveworks
*(09:22): Segment: Getting Tactical
*(09:39): How Shawnee creates brand awareness while recruiting
*(11:28): The relationship between employee experience and retention
*(17:50): How to incorporate tech into the employee experience
*(20:25): Segment: Ripped From The Headlines
*(24:10): How Thriveworks uses tech to fight employee burnout
*(27:34): Segment: Asking For a Friend
-------------------
Links:
Connect with Shawnee on LinkedIn
Connect with Amanda on LinkedIn
Amanda: Shawnee, thank you so much for joining me today.
Shawnee: Thank you for having me, Amanda.
Amanda: Yeah, I'm so excited to talk with you about all the things. ThriveWorks, HR, tech, we're going to probably talk about a lot of stuff today, but basically everything in healthcare and how it impacts the employee experience. So let's just jump right in.
Amanda: So one thing about healthcare we know is it's very siloed. Why do you think that is?
Shawnee: I think with healthcare systems or even payers who reimburse providers, prioritize kind of one aspect of healthcare over the other, it often leads to an imbalance in resources and funding. So for example, if mental health is prioritized over long-term care, for example, it means that resources necessary for providing quality long-term care might be limited and that can result in.
Shawnee: Inadequately staffed facilities, you can have delayed or insufficient care as well as a decrease in quality of life for patients. But focusing too heavily on one aspect of care really does neglect the interconnectedness of mental health and physical health. So mental health issues can often lead to physical health complications and vice versa.
Shawnee: So when you don't look at the person as a whole. And really you have a fragmented approach to healthcare. I do think that it hinders overall recovery and well being and why we do it and why we're so siloed. I really and truly don't know. It's something I'd love to see us be able to break barriers.
Amanda: Yeah.
Amanda: I feel like even physical health, right? My one doctor specialist is siloed from the other one. They don't really talk. So getting health care, mental health care, and physical health care is a whole nother feat.
Shawnee: It is. You're right.
Amanda: Yeah. Before you joined ThriveWorks, you were in post acute care world.
Amanda: What's a major difference between that space and the mental health world?
Shawnee: So I think they're similar in a way and also very different, similar because in both spaces the provider does everything possible to get their client or patient healed mentally or physically so that they can face the world head on and get back to their usual day to day living.
Shawnee: But the post acute world revolves around physical rehabilitation, pain management, helping patients really regain their independence in daily activities. The mental health space employs a range of therapies and interventions, I think like cognitive behavioral therapy or what have you, and that addresses mental health issues and promotes the overall emotional well being.
Amanda: Yeah. I want to, in this podcast, really dive into employee experience because it's an interesting concept to think about. You employ people who are dealing with people's well being and then the burden that might be. So I definitely want to talk about that, but first I want to back up for a few minutes.
Amanda: Okay. And just talk more about you, understand, you know, what you do there and your background. So you've been at ThriveWorks since October 2022. What brought you to ThriveWorks?
Shawnee: Yeah, so my previous employer was divesting facilities and truthfully, post COVID, the post acute space was very different. Then think March 1st, 2020, completely different world.
Shawnee: I was really excited about the opportunity of chief people officer at ThriveWorks because what ThriveWorks offers as a product is unlike any other mental health provider that I've witnessed, at least. It's timely care by clinicians. When you reach out to ThriveWorks, you're seen by a counselor in less than a week.
Shawnee: Whereas, you know, with typical providers, even on the long term care side, sometimes it would take weeks, if not months to get a provider to see individuals in long term care. family and friends or what have you. So looking at their mission, looking at their values, speaking with their kitchen cabinet and executive team was just inspiring.
Shawnee: It really and truly was. So I was thrilled to make a jump but stay in the healthcare space.
Amanda: Yeah, I know the mental healthcare has been growing quite a bit because of COVID and all of the other things that's happened during that time, like social injustice around the country we're seeing. Yeah. Yeah, the death of loved ones because of COVID or, you know, what have you, any reason, but it's just, I know, I know a lot of people who have been getting more mental health, so it's awesome that places like this where you can just get in really quickly and speak to someone.
Shawnee: Yes, and you don't have to go to a brick and mortar location. If you want remote therapy, it's there for you, which I think is also Something like, I think of my son, I have a 15 year old, for example, and he'd much rather jump on and talk to somebody on the computer versus getting in the car, having anxiety driving there.
Shawnee: What am I going to say? What are they going to ask? It feels, I guess, a little less interruptive to have that remote opportunity too.
Amanda: Yeah, absolutely. It feels like a lot of the healthcare field is going more. Remote. There's usually not a reason I need to go in. So talk about your day to day. You're the Chief People Officer at ThriveWorks.
Amanda: What does your day to day look like?
Shawnee: Yeah, so my day to day is an adventure. It's busy. It allows me to be a strategic business partner for our executive team. So we support our workforce in ways that they need most, right? We want to make sure that they have the right technology in place to support them, that employee engagement is a priority for us, as well as creating a workplace that's inclusive.
Shawnee: So I have the opportunity to daily strategize with ways to attract, retain, and engage top talent in the mental health care space. Talent acquisition is something that I have the opportunity to touch daily. Employee development, performance management, comp and benefits. to make sure that not only are we competitive, but we are giving our employees the right compensation benefits, you know, and also strategizing our organizational culture because we want to cultivate and maintain a positive culture that aligns with ThriveWorks values and really drives employee engagement.
Amanda: Absolutely. You work in the HR space, talent acquisition, recruitment, all things related to people. And it seems like you've done that for most of your career. Why did you choose that field?
Shawnee: So it's the most cliche answer ever, and I think in an interview, if an HR professional said this to me, I'd probably cringe, but honestly, I get the utmost satisfaction out of doing things for others, and in the people ops space, I constantly have the opportunity to make people's lives better by making sure policies support their needs, resources are available to them, compensations accurate, benefits are the best in class, offerings, and that way they can be their authentic selves at work, focusing on work, So that we do provide the best care and they don't have to worry about fairness or equity in the market or anything else professionally.
Shawnee: I want to take care of them professionally so that they can show up and be the subject matter experts and do what they love. I love people. So taking care of people is a passion of mine and knowing they're taking care of others, just. I don't know. It kind of comes full circle.
Amanda: Well, you definitely want people in HR positions who like taking care and helping people.
Amanda: I mean, I've worked with some HR folks, maybe you didn't have that. That is their North Star. Why healthcare?
Shawnee: Yeah. So my grandmother... Her name's Granny Pam, that's how I refer to her. Was in a long term care facility when I was in high school. Had the opportunity to visit her many times. She would eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner from me.
Shawnee: Most of the time, sometimes only me. So the sights, the sounds, even the smells didn't deter me from visiting. But instead, it really inspired me to find a way to care for people who care for patients like Granny Pam. And I knew I could never be a doctor or a nurse. Blood and needles are not my thing, much less seeing others in pain is really hard for me, but I knew I could work in the best of my ability to care for those who serve patients with purpose.
Shawnee: And so kind of got into long term care. Thanks to Granny Pam and I've stuck to the healthcare space for 18 years now.
Amanda: That's fantastic. Very inspiring. Let's move into our next segment, getting tactical.
Amanda: I know you're very passionate about recruiting. How are you creating brand awareness while you're recruiting for ThriveWorks?
Shawnee: Great question. So ThriveWorks is on a mission to become America's most valued mental health care company. So this mission underpins our brand and is across all of our recruitment materials. We demonstrate this by highlighting our partnerships. For example, we have a partnership with the city of Juliet to fund mental health services for the underinsured or even uninsured and through messaging in our marketing materials, external communications activities, but every clinician or candidate Even for an administrative positions, right?
Shawnee: Not just clinicians, but they all hear about the value add that ThriveWorks is for the mental health care space and communities that they live in. So I also think that word of mouth creates great brand awareness for us as well.
Amanda: Yeah, absolutely. When you're recruiting for folks, how are you ensuring that who they are aligns with ThriveWorks and that they're the right person for the job?
Shawnee: So I think in healthcare is one of the phenomenal spaces where you can't fake it during an interview, like you have to know what you're talking about as a clinician, as a nurse, as a physician, right? So when we are recruiting, we really recruit and lead with our values to try to attract the right people, community, purpose, integrity, access, and quality.
Shawnee: But for example, one of our core values is quality. So our recruitment process has a layer of interviews that are with clinicians. They're clinical hiring managers that only interview clinicians so that they can vet the quality of those candidates and to ensure that they're exactly who our clients would benefit from the most.
Shawnee: Yeah.
Amanda: So think about once they get in, and then thinking about retention. That's another big part. You'd mentioned what you're focused on. How does retention play into employee experience? I'd also flip that. How does employee experience play into retention? Because I think they have a very symbiotic relationship.
Shawnee: Yeah, they definitely do. So our company was clinician founded, so creating an environment where clinicians could thrive and do their best work has always been one of the priorities at ThriveWorks, which is really helpful. So it really does help retain individuals because we understand a clinician's needs.
Shawnee: and any overall experience we can give them what they need. But unlike others, clinicians work for us. They're not contractors, so they're eligible for benefits, training, development opportunities. We survey them quarterly to make sure that we're giving them what they need to be successful as well. We offer professional development.
Shawnee: A lot of therapists know that this is a place where they can grow and build their skill set. We also offer tuition repayment, which is something that I think paying off student loans, many of us might still be doing so, right? Can appreciate, but this workforce has an extensive amount of education that they go through.
Shawnee: So we try to make any little thing worth their while to show them the value that we see in them to keep their engagement alive and their overall experience with the organization positive.
Amanda: Yeah. Just thinking about the clinicians, when I think about especially what they have to hear and the difficulty of their job really stands out to me.
Amanda: Is there something you all are specifically doing to make sure that, that you're addressing their, their needs and the difficulty of their job?
Shawnee: Yeah, definitely. So there's burnout, right? And I think that mental health providers are among the most at risk. Probably in our country, honestly, for burnout. So we do give that a lot of thought.
Shawnee: We offer flexible schedules so that therapists can work around other commitments. We offer, uh, case consultations for them and supervision so that therapists feel supported at all times. We take the burden of billing, credentialing, administrative burdens, and what have you off of their plate. So we have a support team that manages that for them.
Shawnee: We also have our paid mental health days and therapy for them as well. So therapists need therapy also. Everyone has their day to day lives. And you know, I think they have a profession that's really hard. A lot of individuals can turn it off when they leave. Even if you're remote, when you close your computer, You're done for the day.
Shawnee: But they think quite a bit throughout the rest of their evening, day, or weekend about that last client or one of the clients that they saw that day. So burnout is definitely something that we have to focus on to support them.
Amanda: Yeah. What about DE&I? How are you using DE&I for retention, for recruitment, and to support your clinicians?
Shawnee: Yeah, so it's funny because I think that DE&I is definitely something that a lot of individuals and organizations talk about, but you don't always feel like you're getting it right. ThriveWorks, even when I joined, had a diversity and inclusion committee. And I thought that was amazing. And they didn't want to do D, E, I, and B.
Shawnee: They're like, let's just start with these two and see if we can get it right. Which I thought was amazing. That committee has actually kicked off employee resource groups. And thanks to those who are on that team, these groups, we have hundreds of individuals that have opted into participating in them and they were like, let's just try a couple of quarters with three and see what we could do.
Shawnee: So. There's one about minority leadership, faith and spirituality, LGBTQ things like that. And there's a laundry list of others that our workforce has said, Hey, could we have one with this? Can we do this? And so we have executive sponsors lined up that can't wait to get more off next year.
Amanda: Yeah, it's really great when the employee base
Amanda: gets into something, like they create more ERGs, like they might do veterans ERG, or, and then they keep building, I mean, a single working mothers or parents, single working parent. I've seen that happen. It's just really inspiring that they care and they really want to work together and discuss those issues.
Shawnee: Well, it does. And it builds such camaraderie across an organization that has such a remote population also. So it's not just work. Like you get to actually, you have friendships, you're networking. There's quite a bit more depth there than just kind of the day to day kind of job, I think, when you have those types of resources.
Amanda: Yeah, let's talk a little bit about technology because it sounds like you have a pretty, how many people work at ThriveWorks? How many clinicians and employees do you have total?
Shawnee: Yeah, just a little shy of 3,500.
Amanda: Okay, that's a pretty good size. And I assume they're all remote, is that, or most people are remote?
Shawnee: Yes. Yeah, most of our administrative support service teams are remote. We have a couple that go into an office in Virginia and we do have clinicians that do see clients in brick and mortar locations, but the majority are remote.
Amanda: Thank you. Yeah, so your experience in health care, health care is one of those sort of employee types where it's really hard to reach all the employees, right?
Amanda: For like physical health, you might have nurses, doctors, everyone running around doing their jobs. And then I assume it's a very similar also in the mental health space where you have clinicians who are. Spending their time doing the real important stuff, right, talking to folks and being able to reach them and bring them in and engage them just based on your experience, maybe across your career, what are we getting wrong about tech in relation to employee experience?
Amanda: Especially in the healthcare industry.
Shawnee: Yeah, I think in healthcare, technology should always enhance but not replace that human to human connection. It's really easy to leverage technology to save money at times, but that human to human connection is critically important. It's the same principle that we adhere to when we're looking at providing, like, therapeutic care.
Shawnee: Technology should also make the day to day functions of our teams easier, not harder or longer. And at times, if technology isn't working, we know the frustrations and added gray hair that can have also, right? So like having an intranet or centralized resource repositories, things like that for employees is really important.
Shawnee: And it's funny, even in 2023, how many organizations don't and healthcare is one where you're either extremely advanced and I think more hospital systems, things like that tend to have more up to date technology. Or you're extremely outdated with the technology that you have, and we're really lucky to have a tech and product team here that their sole purpose and what they really and truly want to do every day is make sure that our clinicians can do what they're here to do, and that's see clients not have to battle technology challenges.
Amanda: What do they think about when incorporating tech at ThriveWorks into the employee's brains? Like, are there certain must haves or nice to haves? Like, what does that look like when you're incorporating tech into the employee experience?
Shawnee: Yeah, so our product and tech team actually survey clinicians. And we do an ENPS quarterly.
Shawnee: And it's funny because those comments really help us to determine, like, where's the heartburn, the majority of the heartburn that we're getting from our workforce. The product and tech team will look at those and see if any of them are related to technology and then really dive in to see what can we do to help.
Shawnee: So we had one not that long ago where consent forms, for example, were a challenge. Like clinicians were seeing clients, but the consent forms hadn't been signed. So then you've. Show up and they're like, Oh, nevermind. You haven't signed this. So I can't see you yet. So they're implementing ways, leveraging technology, whether it's through Salesforce or AMDs or EHR system to make sure that every step in the process from the life cycle of a client, from the time that they call to seek care, or they book through our online portal, which is actually new and makes life easier, also all the checks and balances are in place.
Shawnee: So. The clinician can see them, chart for them, and move on to their next client for that day, right? So, it really and truly takes their feedback and knowing where the pain points are to know what to solve for and not just guessing or assuming.
Amanda: I always say, if you want to know what employees want, you just have to ask them.
Amanda: You know, it's that simple, honestly. Then you have to act on it, right?
Shawnee: That's exactly right. Most people don't ask, they assume, and I think that's probably the bane of a lot of employees existence, especially with large organizations, is sometimes you have executives assuming they know what others want or need.
Amanda: Correct. How do you as chief people officer work with a product and tech team? I mean, you mentioned, you know, you have an employee survey that you put out. So, like, what does that look like when you say, okay, they're frustrated about this form and they want to be able to access it digitally or whatever the rub is.
Amanda: What does that look like? You then go to product and tech. What is that relationship like?
Shawnee: Yeah, so they actually see all of the comments real time. So with those ENPS surveys that we do quarterly, our Chief Technology Officer, Chief Product Officer, both have access to see all of the comments. And we'll go through and look at what themes are and highlight those.
Shawnee: They'll take those themes. And especially if someone's willing to put their name. to the survey information, follow up with those individuals one on one and really find out where the pain points are so that they can start working through them and solutioning for them.
Amanda: Yeah, okay. Very cool. Let's move into our next segment, Ripped from the Headlines.
Amanda: I've mentioned this a couple times already. We've been seeing a lot about burnout since the pandemic. What are you doing? to address that burnout and focus on retention.
Shawnee: Yeah, so I think, you know, again, mental health care providers are definitely at risk.
Shawnee: Probably one of the highest professions, I think, with nurses as well for burnout. So we give it quite a bit of thought. We offer flexible schedules. So we want therapists to really and truly be able to work around their other commitments, including like their physical activity needs, right? That contributes to decreasing burnout and increasing your mental health.
Shawnee: Offering case consultations and supervision so they always feel supported. Take the burden again of the administrative challenges off of their plate so that they don't have to focus on the things that they probably hate the most, which just add additional stress, right, to their plate. And then also giving them those paid mental health days that we provide and therapy sessions for our employees.
Shawnee: And we also offer therapy sessions for our employees and their dependents or families, which I think is important because that burnout, we all bring home to work, we can't help it. We really do. And I think it's important for those therapists to be able to help and support their families too.
Amanda: Yeah. It's hard not to bring homework, especially when you're working at home.
Amanda: It's right here. It is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So speaking of burnout, we don't often think about or talk much about professionals and internal comms. They experience burnout too when it comes to dealing with crisis, right? There's a crisis at a company. Internal comms is usually right there working every step along the way and helping organize it.
Amanda: So given what you know about, you know, helping, helping employees deal with crisis, how can companies better help internal comms in times of needs where they may need some help during difficult times?
Shawnee: Yeah, we have the best internal comms, I promise you, hands down. And, uh, they really and truly are the eyes and ears to the front of the house for us.
Shawnee: They have the most up to date temperature on employee engagement and sentiment. Treating them as a strategic partner is really important rather than like announcement copywriters because they're not. Our internal comms team's very empathetic, very in tune with the real world today, which is awesome. So bringing them in early on important movements or changes really helps us keep burnout at bay.
Shawnee: for them because I think it makes them feel also engaged and empowered to have the best internal comms for the organization because they're not left out. They're brought in at the forefront.
Amanda: Now I'm brought in at the 11th hour and say, Hey, we have this issue, right? Right. Right. We got to do something today.
Amanda: Or you know what I mean? Like I've been a part of many of those where you aren't brought in and it does create a lot of stress. There's a. You know, if you aren't trusted, you're really kind of bought in last minute, so I, I get all of that. Yeah. Well, I love that you have the greatest internal comms team.
Shawnee: We do. We really and truly do. They're really amazing and do quite a bit, just, I always say it's like grassroot efforts, but. They're amazing. And anytime that we have like a crisis, if there's a school shooting, for example, things like that, they're the first to jump in, see how many therapists or clients we might have that have been impacted.
Shawnee: How do we reach out? What do we do to support those communities? They're phenomenal.
Amanda: Thinking about employees, all your employees, from your internal comms, to your clinicians, to senior leaders, how are you using the tech? We talked about tech earlier, but how are you using tech to make sure they feel connected even during times of crisis and help reduce their burnout?
Shawnee: Yeah, so we have a lot of fun with technology, believe it or not. We do a Friday afternoon toast. We have talent shows, we have coffee hours, so it's Funny, because it just feels like what you would get at the water cooler in an office, as people say, like we have, and it's all virtual, but it's absolutely amazing.
Shawnee: We do have the opportunity to meet offsite as well, but we have a lot of fun in our virtual world and it helps with different chats. Groups, things like that, that we can keep up with. We have one that's called mandatory fun. That's a lot of fun. We have our own leadership water cooler as well. So we can see what people are doing on the weekends or wish happy birthday across the entire country.
Shawnee: So it's just important to have fun. with the technology that we have in the virtual setting that we're in. And this is the first organization that I've been at that really leverages that and embraces it. And I think it's because we do have a melting pot from so many different industries here that really helps us kind of stay on top of it.
Amanda: Yeah. Talk a little bit about that fund, the mandatory fund, the talent show. How are those set up and are they mandatory? I know it said mandatory fund, but are they mandatory to people just coming out as they want? Like, what does that look like if someone's sitting at their. I guess computer or on their phone right now listening, like how could they set those up to be successful?
Amanda: Yeah.
Shawnee: So you need a team to help, again, you have to ask people what's going to be important to them, but you also have to realize it's not a one and done stop shop, it really and truly isn't. Um, what you might like, you know, Amanda, I might not. find interest in. So you have to offer a plethora of opportunities for people to engage one on one things that are important to them.
Shawnee: None of it's mandatory by any means. We want people to feel like they can jump in and out if they have a meeting, right? So five minutes is fun. Yesterday we had our chief technology officer led just a fun event during lunch hour. And it's a game where you get virtually dropped off at some place in the world and due to your surroundings, you have to figure out where you're at.
Shawnee: I mean, it's a. 20 minute exercise, but we also have a very competitive team. So then you get to see their rankings of where individuals were and who figured out where they were first. So again, it can be very technology oriented. It can be a virtual book club that meets once a month. There's so many different opportunities.
Shawnee: It's just. Again, survey your workforce and find out what's meaningful to them. And I think it's also important to not have HR be the ones who house all of it, or think of it, or do it. Everybody wants to be involved with others. I mean, it's cross departmental functions is important, and there's so many brilliant ideas that come from all of the other departments and teams.
Shawnee: So, I guess just leverage the individuals that you have, their uniqueness and their expertise too to help.
Amanda: I was going to say just from hearing the stories of the past so many minutes we've been talking, it sounds like a lot of what happens there amongst the employees is pretty grassroots. Like you'd mentioned the ERG starting up and people being excited about that and then this sort of fun time stuff.
Amanda: Sounds like your employees are really engaged.
Shawnee: They really and truly are. And we're so thankful for that too. And it's not something that we can feel like we checked a box and move on to the next thing. It's something we live and breathe daily to make sure that we're staying on top of it and continuing to change and evolve with the needs of our workforce too, so that they do stay engaged.
Amanda: Well, let's move into our last segment, asking for a friend.
Amanda: Sounds like you've got a pretty good grasp on employee experience and creating a good employee experience through technology. What advice would you give someone, one of our listeners, who's looking to kind of mirror that as well?
Shawnee: Yeah, so I think again, Knowing from your workforce where their pain points are is extremely important, and then partnering with a best in class tech or product team to help you create or find solutions is the best.
Shawnee: I don't know if it's always a technology play. I don't know if you always need a new vendor or a new software program. Sometimes it's partnering with your process improvement team to say, hey, we might already have technology in play, but we're not leveraging it appropriately. So depending on the resources at your fingertips, I definitely say dive in with the team that you have before looking externally for solutions, but I guess that would probably be my first tidbit of advice.
Shawnee: Go internal and see what you can do after you survey the team.
Amanda: Yeah. Make sure you're using the technology the way it was meant to use and what you have available. Yeah, absolutely. Exactly. Shawnee, this has been a lot of fun. Before I let you go, let our listeners know where they can find you.
Shawnee: Thank you, Amanda.
Shawnee: This has been great. So you can find more about ThriveWorks at thriveworks. com or me on LinkedIn. It's linkedin. com backslash Shawnee Ehrman. You can also reach out to me at shawnee at thriveworks. com.
Amanda: Thank you so much. You know, I just want to thank everyone at ThriveWorks. Y'all are doing some really important work there and helping people.
Amanda: So thank you.
Shawnee: Thank you. I appreciate your time.
Amanda: Yeah, I appreciate you. Thanks so much.