This episode features an interview with Pat Wadors, Chief Human Resources Officer at Intuitive, where she leads a global organization responsible for all aspects of the company’s employee experience. Prior to joining Intuitive, Pat was the Chief People Officer at UKG and Procore Technologies. She also held multiple leadership roles at ServiceNow, LinkedIn, and Yahoo! In this episode, Miriam sits down with Pat to discuss her book Unlock Your Leadership Story, the evolution of DEI in the workplace, and the importance of storytelling for fostering connection among employees.
This episode features an interview with Pat Wadors, Chief Human Resources Officer at Intuitive, where she leads a global organization responsible for all aspects of the company’s employee experience. Prior to joining Intuitive, Pat was the Chief People Officer at UKG and Procore Technologies. She also held multiple leadership roles at ServiceNow, LinkedIn, and Yahoo!
In this episode, Miriam sits down with Pat to discuss her book Unlock Your Leadership Story, the evolution of DEI in the workplace, and the importance of storytelling for fostering connection among employees.
-------------------
“ Words may change, but the intent of creating a high-performing, healthy company that can do their thing, be it a service, a product development, innovate, requires diversity of thought. You look at the past and say, ‘If I hire from this school or from this industry, chances of failure of that candidate are reduced.’ But are you hiring the best? Maybe not. You're de-risking, you're not optimizing. If you slow your neurological roll, if you look at exactly what you need in the future, not just for today, you can create a healthier company.” – Pat Wadors
-------------------
Episode Timestamps:
*(03:55): Getting to know Pat
*(06:31): Pat discusses her book Unlock Your Leadership Story
*(19:42): Pat breaks down personal scorecards
*(24:12): The evolution of DEI in the workplace
*(28:59): The importance of storytelling in creating connection
*(35:56): A lesson Pat learned in her career
-------------------
Links:
Order Pat’s Book Unlock Your Leadership Story
Connect with Miriam on LinkedIn
Miriam Connaughton: Hey everyone, and welcome to Cohesion Podcast. My name is Miriam Connaughton and I am the Chief People Officer at Simpplr. And I'm delighted today to welcome a guest who is, I call you the triple threat, Pat, because we often have HR and comms leaders, or we have kind of speakers and thought leaders in this space, or we have published authors and you're all three.
Miriam Connaughton: So welcome to Cohesion.
Pat Wadors: Thank you for having me.
Miriam Connaughton: Now you have, you know, worked for some amazing companies and you're currently with a relatively new company to you. Tell us a little bit about Intuitive, where you currently are.
Pat Wadors: I love Intuitive, so thank you for the question. So Intuitive, you might know it by Intuitive Surgical or the Da Vinci Robot.
Pat Wadors: So they do minimally invasive robotic surgery. That's their technology. That's what they do. They have a multi port robot. They have a single port. They have this thing called the Ion product, which is super amazing. But every 13, 15 seconds around the world, someone's getting surgery through one of our products and we're improving the lives of our patients by doing so.
Pat Wadors: So it's pretty cool.
Miriam Connaughton: Very cool. Is that also the same technology where you can have surgeons in one part of the world working with surgeons in the other who have the equipment? I mean, that's amazing. Yeah.
Pat Wadors: Yes. So telepresence. I'm a patient of Da Vinci. So I remember being wheeled into the OR in 2019 and it looked like the board was against the wall with these big four arms.
Pat Wadors: And my doctor was on a console in the corner and just like, yep. That's the machine and it was really wild and the recovery was amazing. And now we have telepresence, which you referenced. And if the doctor was operating on me, she had any issues, she can call a friend, literally a doctor can get online into the surgery, see what she sees and either
Pat Wadors: verbally assist her and give her guidance and or take over the surgery itself and say, here's what you need to do with the equipment. So phone an expert is right there. It's pretty amazing.
Miriam Connaughton: Fabulous. Fabulous. Well, welcome. Welcome. We like our listeners to get to know our guests a little bit more. So we do a little personal icebreakers.
Miriam Connaughton: I'm going to start off with one other than obviously the book that you published late last year. What's the last thing that you read? Maybe for pleasure as well, not necessarily for business.
Pat Wadors: Yeah, I'm reading Jack Reacher books actually. So anything that gets me into detective action, mystery, I love that.
Pat Wadors: So I read a lot of business. So when I can get away on a weekend and do that or a puzzle or paint. That's where my brain will go.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, I'm with you on that. I'm a murder mystery detective. We should exchange notes. We should. There's a Scottish writer called Ian Rankin, who has written for decades. He's won lots of awards.
Miriam Connaughton: And it's basically an Edinburgh based detective. And he's following him through his career, and now he's retired. But in the stories, he's still kind of getting woven into various things, crimes going on around Scotland. I love it. Anyway, it's been made into a TV series, but the books are bad. Anyway, so one, you know, you and I both work in the HR field.
Miriam Connaughton: What's kind of, maybe one of those common myths out there you think about HR that you'd like to dispel?
Pat Wadors: I think that, I think it's dispelling on its own actually, thankfully, is like striving to get a seat at the table. As you know, we've been at the table, and especially since COVID, around the world, like the dependency, the influence we've had, the stretching of our own muscles and capabilities on how to navigate something that no one in our generation has seen, right, at our level.
Pat Wadors: So I think HR has huge influence. I think AI is keeping us in the forefront. So don't strive for the seat at the table. Strive for that influence and knowledge that you need to have the impact you need to work.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, good words of advice. And my last little fun icebreaker. If you could have one superpower just for a day, what would it be and why?
Pat Wadors: I'd say I would love to be a, a surfer. It's not a superpower. It's a skill. I'd love to be able to ride waves and just to be there in the ocean with the animals and the other surfers, and have some skills like really ride the waves. Yeah. Like don't pretend like really go into it. It looks cool.
Miriam Connaughton: All I've ever managed is that fleeting 10 seconds stand up in a lesson in Hawaii and then immediate wipe out. But that fleeting 10 seconds was really good.
Pat Wadors: Yeah. That's me. I've got a taste that I want it. And it's just so daunting. Like if I had a skill that you would give me for a day, it'd be like this really cool server.
Miriam Connaughton: That's a cool one. That's a cool one. Anyway, let's dive in so much. I'd love to explore with you, but you know, one thing we're not on this podcast, we don't. promote or push books per se, but I got to talk to you about your book. I genuinely ordered it and read it just as it came out. And those are all my little kind of notes to sell because I do that with business books.
Miriam Connaughton: There were so many, Oh, I must come back to that moments I have, but what inspired you to write it? It's got such an interesting angle, getting into leadership and career exploration through folktales and fables.
Pat Wadors: So what happened, I'm an unintended author. So let's start there. I did not intend to be an author.
Pat Wadors: What happened is Wiley approached me, the publisher approached me a year and a half ago in August and said, Hi, we've seen your post on LinkedIn and some of your thought pieces. Have you thought about writing a book? And I chuckled and I said, yes and no. People have approached me to collaborate with them on a book or have I thought about writing a book?
Pat Wadors: And it's too daunting. And she says, would you write a book on HR? And I said, no, no, thank you. And she was like, why not? And I'm like, there's so many amazing thought leaders in our space that I don't think I would have been anything that would have broken through what's already been done before me. in terms of the research and the knowledge and just the collaboration in our space has just been amazing.
Pat Wadors: Like, I'm following amazing leaders, so don't look to me to write that piece. I think there's amazing people out there already that are doing it. And she goes, well, what would you write about? If I could let you write anything, what would you write about? And that, that startled me and I'm like, no one ever asked me that.
Pat Wadors: And so I thought about it for almost, I don't know, eight weeks, Miriam. I really gave it a thought and I came back to them. And I said, look, I've been giving this some thought. If I could write a book the way I teach, the way I mentor, the way I think, in my words, in my authentic way, I'd be down to do that.
Pat Wadors: Like I, I want to leave the world better than I found it. And I love mentoring and guiding folks. And so I can do it at a bigger scale. Even if I helped one person, I think it's worth my time and my fear. It's scary writing a book and publishing. And she was like, well, what would you write about? And I said, well, I wrote an outline and it's don't laugh based on fables and folktales.
Pat Wadors: And so she's like, hmm. And I'm like, well, there's, if you think about all the stories that last generations, they all have a moral, you know, the lesson in the story. And they apply to me today. And so if you read the book, you know about Goldilocks, right? And finding your just right fit and touching the elephant.
Pat Wadors: I talk to my teams all the time about touching the elephant with curiosity. And so it's my way of sharing those lessons learned in a way that I think, would resonate for every generation no matter what transition or point of life you are and allow you to craft your story who you want to become and leverage the lessons held within these fables and folktales.
Miriam Connaughton: I felt that just listening to your voice in my head because I have the privilege of knowing you because I'm reading it I've got the author's voice in my head that it was so honest and vulnerable the way you've written I mean there's some stories in there about your own challenges, your own moments of, Oh gosh, I wish I hadn't done it that way.
Miriam Connaughton: But that's where kind of the insights come as well. Or even when some of the greatest insights come, isn't it? I just loved, loved reading it. And one of the things that, you know, one of my blues, first blue tabs came in the prologue, actually, which was because you mentioned imposter syndrome. which really resonated with me personally.
Miriam Connaughton: It's not just a female leader thing. We know that. But other than time and experience, what's helped you or is helping you, if you still feel you have it, get over that imposter syndrome? Because it is such a shared experience for many of us.
Pat Wadors: I still have it. Oh my gosh, sits on my shoulder. I think that when it becomes really daunting, I, like, my fear, my, my hesitation to do something to put myself out there, I actually have to reflect, like, what's holding me back?
Pat Wadors: And then it's the fear of, like, I'm not good enough or someone's better than me or whatever that imposter feeling is. And I literally just go, get off. I touch myself. I'm like, get off. Like, the worst that can happen is I try and I learn. And if I try and do an influence for good, then gosh, that's pretty darn awesome.
Pat Wadors: And why not try? And so it gives me the courage to go forward. So I physically remove the imposter as often as I can when I feel it creeping up and overburning nonstop. That's good advice. Got it.
Miriam Connaughton: It's like that shake it off. Isn't it? Somebody wrote a song about that. I think. Yes. Yes. It does. She's so right.
Miriam Connaughton: For sure. For sure. And you touched on a second ago, your Goldilocks framework, which again, that was one of my other kind of blue stickies and, and you've got some very helpful kind of frameworks as well. So if you want to do some self reflection, so share for the benefit our listeners, you know, what the Goldilocks framework is and.
Miriam Connaughton: How you arrived at it as well, because you've used it in your own career. You share some great stories there.
Pat Wadors: Oh yeah, that's probably one of the tools I've used the longest, right, in terms of tried and true and evolved over time. Gosh, in my early career, I was watching peers of mine being tapped on the shoulder to do things because they had an expertise in something and they would end up following a path that was not of their choosing and their energy, their joy in what they were doing decreased.
Pat Wadors: And I'm an observer as an introvert. All us introverts, you know, watch a lot and we listened deeply and I felt the changes and I started getting tapped on my shoulder for different things. I'm like, wait a minute, I love to be wanted. Right, and so it's easy for me to say yes, but then do I end up in a path that's not
Pat Wadors: right for me, not my joy. And I started getting a coach. I went to a class called managing your personal growth. I mean, I took, I did some work to figure this stuff out and it was overwhelming. I'm like, how do I, because I'm also dyslexic, I try to create a simple pragmatic framework for my own head. So I would pause in the moment and find my just right fit.
Pat Wadors: And Goldilocks came in my head when I was in college. Like, I like the fact she tried porridges and chairs and beds. Like, what you don't like is just as important. And I had to remind myself, I'm like, Goldilocks, Goldilocks, just because you don't like the current job doesn't mean it's bad. Just because you're struggling with this boss doesn't mean it's bad lessons.
Pat Wadors: They're all amazing. And so I sat down one day and I, and I did my spreadsheet. I'm like, what truly are my values? Right. What, what do I stand for and how do I want to live my best life? And then what are my motivators today, right now? And recognizing they can change in the moment depending on what life throws at you.
Pat Wadors: And then what are my emerging superpowers? Like they were emerging. And things I love doing things that were necessary that I got strong at that I was getting tapped at that were not my joy. And so I learned how to identify skills that I had joy doing for hours at a time. And things like numbers because of my dyslexia like I could do it Miriam, but I didn't want to spend all day in a spreadsheet.
Pat Wadors: I'd be worried about the error rate. Like if you made me nervous, it'd be like 50 percent errors. I'm sure of it. And so being your best self, what does that look like? And the spreadsheet came to be. And then I started sharing it with others and like they were scoring it. I had one engineer doing it a little bit differently like, Oh, that's such a great way.
Pat Wadors: But like it was such an amazing evolution. And I remember I met with this one VP at Visa and she wanted to do her Goldilocks. She asked me to coach her and I'm like, well, I'll help you with a little bit of wisdom I've gathered along the way. And I shared my Goldie and she came back to me like two, three months later with apologies and said she couldn't finish it.
Pat Wadors: And I said. Why was it the tool wrong? And she said, it's hard to look at yourself. Truly look at yourself. And she goes, I am taking a week off to do Goldie and I am holding myself accountable. So next Tuesday, a week from this Tuesday, can you meet with me on my Goldie? And that's my deliverable. I'm like, alright, let's do it.
Pat Wadors: And it just, it's amazing how Goldilocks evolves.
Miriam Connaughton: No. And you talk about, you know, you mentioned the example you just shared, that sitting in self reflection, as you call it, is hard. And I know, I identified with that because there's times I know in my career, I call them my outer body experiences, where I've been in a meeting or a situation.
Miriam Connaughton: And I kind of had this outer body looking down at myself thinking, I don't want to be here. And it's not just that one thing that led up to that realization. It's, it's always a combination of things, but at that there's always a moment, at least for me, there's been a moment where I come to that realization.
Miriam Connaughton: I've been kidding myself. I've been lying to myself. I've been putting my head down and just being a trooper or whatever it is. Cause I've got that good, you know, one of the things on my shoulders, I've got that kind of. working class girl, you know, you got to get it right. You got to get the A, you got to show up.
Miriam Connaughton: And, you know, I needed to shake that off and say, actually, no, it's okay to go do something just because it's what you enjoy. not because somebody else told you that you should do it and be a good girl and follow and say yes, I'll do that. So that sitting is self reflection, doing the work. And I found the fray work really an accessible way of doing it because it is hot.
Pat Wadors: Yeah. And it's when you talk out loud to someone. And someone goes, Oh, I see that in you. And then they sit up taller and they're like, well, tell me more. Why is that a motivator? And they're like, I think I wrote it down. Cause I think it has to be, or should be right. They hear their own words and I'm like, then don't put, if it should be, it's not your motivator.
Pat Wadors: Yeah. So it's just fascinating.
Miriam Connaughton: It is. One of the things I loved getting insight on is you kind of worked at some amazing companies along the way, the great good of Silicon Valley, you know, there's one example that stuck with me was the elephant story and the leadership team who kind of just weren't listening to each other and kind of how they came to use that.
Miriam Connaughton: If you like that insight to craft a new way of operating for them. And I've read the book, I've had the benefit, maybe just for our listeners, because I think it's so powerful to take something so simple. to get a leadership team to have a breakthrough that then helps them work differently.
Pat Wadors: So we were, as a leadership team, this was at ServiceNow, John Donahoe was the new CEO, and we were storming and forming as a team.
Pat Wadors: We had new leaders, we had some legacy leaders that had been there a while, and some in betweeners, and we're like, who are we as a team? So every time you Add a new team, one team member, it's a new team. And so we did some work, like what do we stand for? How are we going to operate together? And we created what we called our social contract.
Pat Wadors: And the contract was meant to address the areas that we knew we were not doing as well as we should and could. And we wanted to hold each other accountable. And one thing we would do is argue a lot and listen to the debate for what we want to say, not what they were saying, right? We weren't actually listening intently.
Pat Wadors: And there were a lot of examples. around the table about that. And so we talked about the fable of the blind men and the elephant. This gentleman comes into a village with an elephant and he meets up with these five elderly blind men and just asks them to touch this object and tell me what you think it is.
Pat Wadors: And each gentleman stands up and touches the object and one says it's a snake and the other one says it's a barrel and a trunk of a tree and blah, blah, blah. And they, they argued. They were friends for so long and they were starting to argue and get upset with each other. No, no, no, it's this, it's this.
Pat Wadors: And it wasn't until one of their friends asked, why do you think it's a snake? What are you touching that I don't touch? And they started explaining what they were feeling through their fingers. And the curiosity, as soon as they turned to curiosity, they became more joyful. They understood they were not touching a snake or a barrel or a tree.
Pat Wadors: They were touching an elephant. And it's that curiosity. And John stood up with the team and said, okay, we've got to create our mantra to ask those questions, but I want us to be prepared for the argument. Why do we believe what we believe in? And so we came up with argue like you're right. That means you do your homework, you get your data, you come prepared, you own your
Pat Wadors: point of view. But then you have the humility to listen like you're wrong. Ask the questions, what could I be missing? What do you see that I don't see? And we'll be stronger from that. So we, we think about the elephant.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah. It's, it's just a fabulous example of how through that simple storytelling, it can help unlock something.
Miriam Connaughton: You know, in that example, it was kind of quite conflict, you know, written the challenging conversations, new team building, all that kind of thing. Fabulous. You've mentioned your personal score card. And one of the things I loved in reading the book, it's that sitting in self reflection. It's not just self reflection you in the workplace, because it's you.
Miriam Connaughton: It's the whole you, the whole you, whether it's in life, your family, what in your career, whatever it is, it's, it touches everything. So it's not a self help book, the normal description of putting it on that shelf in the bookstore, but it does kind of force some of that self review, which I found so helpful.
Pat Wadors: Yeah, it's funny because so often when you get coached, it's about your career, your career, career, career. And when I had coaches, it wasn't often that you were talked and discussed about your personal values and your motivators and your restrictions. right? Like what inhibits you? Like what are the blockers to you pursuing what you want to pursue?
Pat Wadors: And then how do you bust through that blocker, integrate the whole person? And so for me, that personal scorecard is acknowledging that when I'm at work, I'm still a mom. When I'm at work, I'm still a wife. I'm a sister. I'm a friend. And so I have a bat phone with my kids. If they call me back to back and I'm answering that phone, I don't care where I am, I'm answering their phone because I'm their mom first and foremost, right?
Pat Wadors: And that's part of my scorecard.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, no, I'm with you on that. One of the things that really I connected with just kind of going back to the self reflection and thinking about where you are in life and work and career was the frog. in the boiling point. And I just, that was, that got lots of blue stickies as well.
Miriam Connaughton: Cause I was, it was really that bit, like I was mentioning earlier about that kind of outer body experience. It's like, that's like something, something's off here, you know? Yes. It's like, I'm having this dissonance. Why am I having this dissonance? And, you know, maybe again for our listeners, I'm talking like everybody's read the book and they haven't, but talk a little bit about how you kind of brought that fable into helping as you mentored and as you self reflected as well.
Pat Wadors: Well, I think about some of the coaching advice I got, you become the company you keep. My mom used to tell me that about the friends I kept, right? Like how do you want to be seen? The same thing comes from companies and leaders that you follow and the environments that you're in and the choices you make.
Pat Wadors: And sometimes you're in an organization that is fine and then you rotate to a new team and the team feels different to you. You don't know why, but you really want this opportunity. You think it's a way to get promoted or a new skill or something, right? Pay. I mean, there's so many reasons to take a job, but it's, It's not settling with you.
Pat Wadors: Something feels off. And you need to reflect on why. And it's like the frog in boiling water. Over time, if you make excuses for what feels off, it might be a really toxic environment. And then when you want to jump to a new team, they're like, no, you're part of that toxicity. You're part of that culture.
Pat Wadors: Whatever that thing is. That leader or that team is mean. They're rude. They take credit or they're blank. And so you get pain in this broad brush, perhaps. There's a risk. And then I'm like, wow, that's interesting. And so I think about how do you Be very self aware. And the other frog reminded me of is wisdom that my, my uncle gave me early on my career is like, you can get pigeonholed in a career.
Pat Wadors: If you stay in a role too long or an industry too long, that, that becomes you. And he said, there's like three year mark. If you're an analyst for three years, they will only think of you as an analyst. And I laughed thinking I'm dyslexic. No one's going to think I want to be in numbers for my whole life.
Pat Wadors: But he was right. They saw me as an analyst, not as a people person. And I'm like, wow. So how do you stay self aware of your environment and the reputation you gather, the culture that you become over time and make better choices for yourself? Either change your lily pad, make it healthier. You don't always have to jump.
Pat Wadors: You can make a tweak. You can fix something. Or sometimes you just, I got to jump. Be it a team, be it a company, an industry, you got to jump. Just know the difference.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, again, that was definitely a blue sticker moment, a blue sticker moment for sure. And one of the things that I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about, because you're such a great kind of speaker and I've done your LinkedIn learning on building inclusion and belonging in the workplace.
Miriam Connaughton: And I want to come to that because you touched on it again. You were, you're so vulnerable and open. I experienced you like that as a human, and I could hear that coming through in your book and you. Touched on, you know, your dyslexia and the challenges of that, but how DEI or whatever acronym we're using, it's in the headlines right now for lots of different reasons.
Miriam Connaughton: There's lots of big companies saying, I'm throwing this out and lots of things coming and we won't get political, but you know, with the events last week and kind of what was stated, how do you see that whole world evolving in the workplace? Because that inclusion and belonging, it's such a human need
Miriam Connaughton: and a human right. How do you see that evolving for us as practitioners in HR, just needing to guide our organizations through all of that?
Pat Wadors: It doesn't go away. We're genetically wired to belong and you don't belong everywhere, right? That's a fact. Some things fit you, some things don't. I think that corporations, companies that create a welcoming, inclusive environment where you have a shot at belonging, right?
Pat Wadors: In an authentic way, professional, authentic way, doesn't mean I don't tweak what I wear, right? If it's a professional environment, how do I sell to doctors is different than when I sell to software engineers or how they work and how they show up. And so I think words may change. But the intent of creating a high performing healthy company that can do their thing, be it a service, a product, development, innovate, requires diversity of thought.
Pat Wadors: It requires us to know our customers and who they are in their vast, you know, myriad of diversity of how they think and show up. If you think about ADA compliance, just something fundamental like that. Miriam, it changed the world in so much healthier ways than intended. So they would ask owners of buildings to create a ramp, right, for people that needed it for a wheelchair.
Pat Wadors: And there was a lot of arguments, a capital expense, it's going to hit my profitability, my cost, etc. That ramp allowed new moms and dads to push up carriages, the bicyclist with their bike, crutches. It became a more inclusive. way in which to welcome people into your workspace. So if you think more broadly and embed it in the decisions of a healthy organization, how you make decisions, reduce your bias.
Pat Wadors: So if you go fast, let me give you another practical example. Speed of decision making forces us to do pattern recognition. And so when you go fast, you're actually de-risking something, not optimizing for optimal performance. You look at the past and say, if I hire from this school or from this industry, chances of failure of that candidate are reduced.
Pat Wadors: But are you hiring the best? Maybe not. So you're de-risking, you're not optimizing. And so if you slow your neurological role, if you look exactly what you need in the future, not just for today, you can create a healthier company. So yeah, there's pressure, right? Maybe we, we changed our language a little bit, but I know
Pat Wadors: that diverse teams, divergent thoughts, how we show up, make better products, better innovation, better service. And that's, we have to hold on to.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, no, that you're right. The, the data tells the story in part, large part. And I was reminded as listening to that, you know, in the same way that, you know, the folktales of fables perspectives we've been talking about from your book.
Miriam Connaughton: History is a great teacher as well. And language that we've used for things has always evolved. It's always been so. I can remember, you know, when I entered, very first entered the workplace, we actually did things called climate surveys. I mean, what the heck were those? And then it became employee satisfaction.
Miriam Connaughton: And then we started talking just. Starting to talk about engagement and then, you know, fast forward, and we've got so much richer, deeper ways of understanding and tapping into, you know, helping employees share with us how they feel, how they think, what impacts their performance. So we call it something else now, but really it's the same thing that's just evolved both with time, with the technology that's available, with the data that we can now tap into, and it's right for the context of now.
Miriam Connaughton: And I'm with you. I'm a believer that it doesn't go away. It just changes.
Pat Wadors: It just evolves, right? And smart people figure out how to evolve it and keep it harnessed and thriving. This is it.
Miriam Connaughton: And at the end of the day, the results speak. So if the performance is there, if that kind of innovation is there, if all of those things that we know come from high performing teams,
Miriam Connaughton: then it's going to stick around and it's going to evolve. That's those are the two tricks. For sure. For sure. One of the things we, you know, we've touched on that power of human connection, that power of belonging. How do you see storytelling, which is so powerful and important to the human condition, including in the workplace.
Miriam Connaughton: How do you see that evolving in this way that we're working, where we use technology much more to communicate, where, you know, we've got a diversity of work models we're all now super familiar with? How do you see that human connection through storytelling evolving in the workplace?
Pat Wadors: Great question. What comes to mind, Miriam, is that my story told to you from beginning, middle, and end will release chemicals in your brain that connects you to me and what is common and what is different between us and our relationship will change.
Pat Wadors: So our human stories bring community together. And when you tell your story, I get to know your vulnerabilities and your aspirations. And that influences me, right? I want to help you to achieve your goals or I know that you're afraid of mountain climbing. So next time we have to go mountain climbing, I'm your buddy, right?
Pat Wadors: Or whatever that thing is, I think our stories create community courage, helps knock off the imposter a little faster. And that, that creates a vulnerability to share more at work. Right. I think that's huge. Smiles are contagious. So coming together for purpose. Our body language is contagious. When you lean into something, when you show who you are, you can't help but create a community.
Pat Wadors: And our chemicals react to it. So why would we not tell our story? And there's this old Debate. Do I have to trust you to tell you my story? Do I tell my story so we can build the trust like the horse or the cart kind of debate? I believe strongly to be vulnerable first. I need to be vulnerable for me to be trusted and for people to welcome me.
Pat Wadors: And I hope others will see that and in return show who they are. You have to show me everything. I don't need to know everything but who I am matters and especially if you're a leader. And so I think storytelling will never go away.
Miriam Connaughton: I love how you started off sharing that in terms of just, there is literally a physiological, you know, there's an emotional and a cognitive reaction going on whenever we interact, however we interact in whatever setting.
Miriam Connaughton: And I think I'm going to mention this on one of my other conversations recently, it just stuck with me, it became my word for the day that week. I was reading an article about happiness and joy in life, not just in the workplace. But it was based around the science of confelicity. So the idea of felicity, happiness, con together, and the joy we get when, you know, you just, what do you do when you get good news, you know, you text your best friend, you call your sister, you know, and the joy that gives you share, or you just share a compliment.
Miriam Connaughton: or you give somebody encouragement and it makes them feel a certain way. Like you said, they sit up straighter and they kind of walk a little taller, but you also feel better when you do it. And there's science to that as well. And I just love that idea that if we had more conflict in our lives. It actually does have that kind of ripple effect and yeah, it just resonated with me.
Miriam Connaughton: It came back to my mind there when you were sharing the physiological reaction we have. And just going back, you know, we're talking about kind of the challenges of we use a much more tech in the workplace, so working hard to keep that human connection going. And one of the, my other blue sticker moments was the Emperor's New Call story.
Miriam Connaughton: Which I can remember as a child having this brilliant Hans Christian Andersen illustrated storybook and I just remember the illustration. I loved it because as a child, there's nothing more funny than like, you know, adults in underwear, you know, when you're little, it's like, Oh, that's a real funny kind of moment, isn't it?
Miriam Connaughton: And it really stuck with me. And there's this brilliant illustration of this portly emperor. with just the crown on his head and his long johns stretching through town and everybody else similarly because they'd all bought into the group thing and this one little ragamuffin boy wearing clothes going, hang on, hang on.
Miriam Connaughton: I don't see anything. I know. And when you talked about that, you talked about, and I'm looking at my notes because I wanted to get it right. You said, every employee deserves to be treated beautifully, which I loved. How do you bring that thinking into the, what is a complex, messy tech enabled. world of service delivery that we live in HR as part of our remit.
Miriam Connaughton: How do you bring that through how you build that infrastructure and deliver that experience?
Pat Wadors: For me, it's like the magnetic north, right? It's a compass statement for me and my team. And I remember when I shared it with not only my team, but my company that I was at at the time. And I was, my bigger point was even in tough times, even if I have to lay somebody off.
Pat Wadors: I can be present, I can be respectful, I can be compassionate. I know in tough times you might retain 30% of what I'm saying. And for most of us, when we're giving bad news, we just want to run, deliver it and leave, be short and sweet and out. But sometimes out of respect and compassion, you got to stay.
Pat Wadors: And you gotta, you gotta repeat it and you gotta make yourself available to their partner or whomever to make sure they have the right benefits and the right care depending on their scenario. And I told that to my team. I said, they and you don't deserve to be treated beautifully. You deserve feedback, truth.
Pat Wadors: You deserve support and recognition. You deserve fair pay. You deserve to be treated beautifully. And our job is to ensure that we know what that looks like. It doesn't mean you get everything you want. Everyone doesn't get a pony. Everyone doesn't get paid 90th percentile, whatever that thing is. But within the realm of humanity and your policies, be compassionate, respectful, be present.
Pat Wadors: And that goes such a long way. And it's hard. It's harder than it sounds. No, it is because it comes back to what's messy and hard, which is being vulnerable.
Miriam Connaughton: Yes. It just, it is, it gets, it strays, you know, I, one of the things I know I struggle and we perennially struggle with in HR is just how to get a really good kind of culture of open coaching and feedback and, you know, performance management is that one program.
Miriam Connaughton: Everybody goes, Ooh, performance management, you're in process, cringe, cringe, nobody gets it right. Everybody has their pro their program itself, blow, everybody's blowing it up every now and then and redesigning it. It's hard. It's hard. And I think part of it's hard is because you mentioned a second ago that feedback for me is a kindness but it's really hard to give sometimes because I have to give you something challenging maybe and it's certainly hard to ask for it even sometimes or be open to it when you have asked for it.
Miriam Connaughton: Ultimately, feedback for me is a kindness and I know you tell some great stories where, you know, it points in. your career and we've all had these moments where sometimes it's the more challenging moments this feedback sticks with you and at the time I might not have probably been as gracious I should have been as a person of work but boy was it helpful because I've filed that away and I've sat with it and I
Miriam Connaughton: did something different as a result of it and looking back, I know how important those were in my career and you have some great examples. I know if you pick one that you like where you had a challenge or you learned through something that was challenging and that's often where the great lessons come, isn't it?
Pat Wadors: Oh my gosh, it's the best. It's hard, but gosh, again, your brain is an amazing thing. Right. And it's scary to give feedback. And so anytime someone gives me feedback, I'm wiser now. And I thank them profusely. I don't have to agree with everything you're sharing with me, but I know it took courage. And if you gave it to me with good intent to make me better and stronger, help the team love it even more.
Pat Wadors: Right. Let's keep talking, but to receive it, sometimes is really hard. And I remember when I was learning how to manage others and the impact of a bad manager versus a good one, and I had some bad ones. Think of Goldilocks. What, what doesn't work for me? I learned from, and I didn't want to be that thing.
Pat Wadors: And so I was learning how to not only lead a team that had direct relationship, you know, reporting to me, but I had an influence role. I had a broader extensive team, and I was doing legal integration of a company. And so I was traveling, I was a new mom, I was hustling, and so when I was in corporate headquarters.
Pat Wadors: I'd have lunch by myself to recharge as an introvert. In the evenings, I'd boogie home because I had a newborn. I was still nursing, right? And my husband was waiting for my helping hands. You know, it's chaotic life of three kids of three and under. And I didn't share anything with my team of who I was as a human being.
Pat Wadors: And when I would travel, I realized there was a subset of this broader team that was becoming more distant from me. They were returning good work product to me. They were not responsive. There was all these things in it. I didn't get what I needed when I was in Singapore, Malaysia, or Taiwan. I had to stay longer.
Pat Wadors: And if I had to stay longer, it means I had to call that husband up and go, honey, I'm sorry. Like I got to stay now a couple of days, come behind on the deliverable. Huge cost of family. And. One night I was in my hotel room, just like agitated, like, why aren't these people doing their job? And it was like two in the, I, some of my best formal moments are 2 a.m.
Pat Wadors: I'm like, oh my gosh, those folks, nothing in common. Only thing in common is me. So if I logically look at this pattern, it's gotta be me. What am I doing wrong? And I couldn't see it. So I got back to the U. S. I got a coach. I said, can you just interview these 10 folks and find out what the heck am I doing wrong?
Pat Wadors: And the coach was like, why don't you do a 360? Good, bad, and I'm like, no, these 10 people hate me for a reason. I need to know why. Yeah, but I was like, you know what I meant? I was like, they're not liking you very much. So I got the feedback and I, it made me cry. I pretended it was the salsa at that lunch.
Pat Wadors: That made me cry, but it's really the feedback and Denise was kind and gentle with it, but she was like, look, they don't know you. You eat by yourself, you walk by, you say hi maybe, and then you keep walking and wait for their response, how their weekend was, you show no social interest, they invite you to happy hours, you're like yes, and then you flake, you don't show, and you're short with them on emails, they think you're self motivated, you're out for your own career, painted me in a really dark spot, I share more in the book, and she was like, let's try to turn these around, but let's pick two.
Pat Wadors: Be more vulnerable. They don't know you're an introvert. They don't know you're a new mom. They don't, they deserve to know who you are as a leader. And I sat on that and I said, again, I thought, and I said, I have to do all 10. And so two a day for a week, I sat there in the uncomfortable moment and saying, I made appointments with them.
Pat Wadors: It was hard to read. You're right. And I owe you my deepest apologies. Let me reintroduce myself. Let me get to know you. Who are you? How can I help you? How can I make this better? Because I need to make it better. And it was the most cathartic, tough lesson learned as a leader I've ever had in my career.
Pat Wadors: Like I carry that forward in my heart today. It was amazing. moment and I changed those relationships. It was just, yeah, but boy was that hard.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah. I mean, you were so amazing. Well, just in the telling just now, but in the book about just being very vulnerable because you're lifting the lid on, Ooh, that was a bit of an ouch moment, but so important to share those because And again, that was another one of my blue sticky post at all moments, because I've had at least one, if not a few more parallel things that as I've learned, as I took on new challenges or something, because I like you, even though people, when I tell them like, no, really, I am actually an introvert as well.
Miriam Connaughton: And yet, but in my work, as with you, I've had to do a lot of outward stuff and get on that stage and go leave that team and go leave that murder or whatever. And so I would present differently and then crawl away at night and be extremely exhausted because I'd had to show up that way. So it does so much of that really resonated with me and it was a good reminder as well because you have to keep reminding yourself.
Miriam Connaughton: As you enter those new experiences, let me just remember that lesson from a while ago and make sure I set off on the right
Pat Wadors: way with this day. Totally changed how I on board, like with this new team. This is who I am. I'm very deliberate about my dyslexia. When I write on the whiteboard, my spelling sucks.
Pat Wadors: If I'm more nervous, it gets worse, like a stutter and I'm an introvert. And if you want more of me, invite me. You know, as an introvert, when you're invited, it's, you get more relaxed, but just like, I want to go into that social setting. It's like daunting for me anyway. Like I, my hands sweat. I like, no, I don't know how to do it.
Pat Wadors: No, I don't even, my toes curl.
Miriam Connaughton: I'm like, Oh, I'm like, deep breath, get through it.
Pat Wadors: Yeah. So invite me. It's easier for me. So I get, I am more vulnerable that way.
Miriam Connaughton: Yeah, no, I'm totally with you. I could literally talk all day. We could spend the whole, the rest of the day talking about it, but time is upon us. And one of the things which it was like, it was literally my, I think towards the end of the book, it was my last sticky moment.
Miriam Connaughton: And I want to ask this last question to you and I'm going to read it so I get it right. It was a Mark Twain quote that you included in the book. which was 20 years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do, which again, really struck a chord. So for Pat Waters, as you dream a little, as you look forward, what are some of those things?
Miriam Connaughton: I think I want to maybe try out or explore or learn so that I don't have that rear view regret later on.
Pat Wadors: I think the book was one of those things. I got over, like when it got published, I was scared. Like to submit my final manuscript, I was scared and I'd regret not being me in that book. So there is me in the book.
Pat Wadors: It's not just theory, it's me. So how do you throw that out to the world and not feel a little jittery? So those are one of the things I had an opportunity. I'd be regretting if I didn't grab it. I think the other thing in my 20 years is that I want to be really present for my grandkids. Right. I, I, I want to be present in the community in which I live.
Pat Wadors: I want to learn more, do more. And I don't want to say no as often because I'm too busy. And I'm not sure exactly what that looks like, but learning a language. I did the ukulele, you know, went during COVID. And so like, I, like maybe surfing, right. I just admit, yeah, there you go. Whether I like it or not, I just want to say yes and try.
Pat Wadors: Who knows what life will give me. in return. A good friend. That isn't so bad, right?
Miriam Connaughton: So yeah, yeah, yeah. Why not say yes? So the saying is there's one good book in all of us, which I'm not sure I agree with because there's some awful books being published out there. Yours definitely is not one of those awful ones.
Miriam Connaughton: Do you think there's a second book in there? Are you on the writing path now? Okay. Maybe it's a secret project you can't talk about.
Pat Wadors: No, the funny enough, I'd like your opinion. When I speak about the book again, like I didn't have a PR firm, I'm not out there doing this huge thing because it was like enough energy to just get it out there and talk a little bit about it.
Pat Wadors: But in the audiences, several times now Miriam, they've asked me, you've written these nice stories. What about the darker stories? Ooh, Little Red Riding Hood, Hansel and Gretel, things like that. And like, why didn't you add those? And I said, well, because when I entered the woods, when I, when I bump into the, the wolf in grandma's clothing, to know oneself, your values, who you are, your scorecard makes you stronger to survive the woods.
Pat Wadors: So I want you to see those stories first. I might write the dark stories and how you face them. with those life skills. Maybe if there's an interest we might talk about Hansel and Gretel in the future.
Miriam Connaughton: For sure because sometimes those fables were told together because Goldilocks and the Three Bears was often published in parallel with Little Red Riding Hood.
Miriam Connaughton: Yes. They're kind of going into the forest but having kind of different experiences and different paths. Exactly. Huh. The witch with the apple and Snow White, I can see that. Yes. And which, which, yes, Dorf you'd be and why. Yes. Yeah. I think you're onto something there. I think you're onto something. Well, our listeners out there often like to connect with us.
Miriam Connaughton: What's the best way to connect with you? What kind of platforms, what kind of outreach is best to, if they want to connect with you, Pat Wadors?
Pat Wadors: So LinkedIn is always the best. Connect through my email pat_waters@yahoo.com. Or you can check out my website wadors.com. I launched that with the book in case you have any questions and curious about the fables. So thank you for your time.
Miriam Connaughton: No, thank you, Pat. It's been really fabulous. I've enjoyed it. And as I say, we're not a book podcast, but I would say. Genuinely, this is a book that I would hand on heart recommend. It's just such an interesting, insightful, easy read and listeners can go out there and get their own colored post it notes going in a copy of the book.
Miriam Connaughton: Thank you so much, Pat. It's been wonderful.
Pat Wadors: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Have a wonderful day.
Miriam Connaughton: You too.