This episode features an interview with Barbara Massa, board member of Simpplr. Barbara has over 25 years of experience as a business operations leader driving workforce strategy and organizational effectiveness. Previously, she served Mandiant as the Executive Vice President and Chief of Business Operations, where she implemented the company’s first global HR system. Before joining Mandiant, Barbara led Talent & Diversity at McAfee, Inc. and was recognized for establishing a global talent management organization. In this episode, Amanda sits down with Barbara to discuss leading through turbulent times, advising companies to be more human, and thoughtfully aligning internal partnerships.
This episode features an interview with Barbara Massa, board member of Simpplr. Barbara has over 25 years of experience as a business operations leader driving workforce strategy and organizational effectiveness. Previously, she served Mandiant as the Executive Vice President and Chief of Business Operations, where she implemented the company’s first global HR system. Before joining Mandiant, Barbara led Talent & Diversity at McAfee, Inc. and was recognized for establishing a global talent management organization.
In this episode, Amanda sits down with Barbara to discuss leading through turbulent times, advising companies to be more human, and thoughtfully aligning internal partnerships.
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“When you do get into having to make these difficult decisions, whether it be a reduction in a layoff or something else, that's a hard place to be. But the only way you can establish a reservoir of trust is with that authentic communication, humane engagement. Go into conversations with empathy, go into conversations seeking to learn and understand. That's where the goodness can happen even in times of duress and turbulence.” – Barbara Massa
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Episode Timestamps:
*(02:02): Barbara’s background
*(13:32): Segment: Story Time
*(21:00): Segment: Getting Tactical
*(22:01): How Barbara meets desires in turbulent times
*(25:40): How leaders should incorporate transparency into strategies
*(31:39): Segment: Seat at the Table
*(36:56): Segment: Asking For a Friend
*(41:20): Barbara discusses recipe versus balance
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Links:
Connect with Barbara on LinkedIn
Connect with Amanda on LinkedIn
Amanda Berry: Barbara. How are you today?
Barbara Massa: I am doing great, Amanda.
Barbara Massa: How about yourself?
Amanda Berry: I'm
Amanda Berry: doing excellent. Hey, thanks so much for joining me today. I'm so excited to have you here with us today. So I wanna first start off and understand a little bit more about you and who you are. So can you talk about your career journey and how you got to
Barbara Massa: where you are? Absolutely, and really thanks to you and and to the organization for having me here on, on the podcast.
Barbara Massa: So, little bit about my career journey. First, I think the, the tagline is atypical. My journey was far from what I think you would consider to be atypical sort of step function. I was a lifetime soccer player and, you know, all I wanted to do growing up was just play soccer. So I really didn't have these.
Barbara Massa: Childhood aspirations of business or technology? I was an okay student. You know, I wasn't a particularly great student, but you know, I made the grades that required me to play the sport that I love, and unfortunately, as I was in my teenage years and actually had a verbal commit for a university to go on and play collegiate soccer, I actually ended up having a really serious hip fracture, which ended that kind of part of my life at at that time.
Barbara Massa: And so I had sort of a, a reckoning around what did I wanna do with the rest of my life. And I think it's a little unusual to have that at 16 and a half years old, which is how old I was at the time. Um, you had, you
Amanda Berry: had like a, like a 10th 10th, what do they call, like a midlife crisis? Quarter Life crisis.
Amanda Berry: You had like a 10th life. One-tenth of a life crisis. Yes.
Barbara Massa: Yes. I think that's a perfect way to, to frame it and. For some, some reason I felt like I just needed to get started and get on kind of the working journey. If the sport journey wasn't gonna pan out as I thought, well, you know, I've had jobs since I was 12, 13 years old.
Barbara Massa: I had a part-time job at the time and I just turned that part-time job into a full-time job. Ended up completing high school through independent studies. Actually graduated a a bit early and started in on, on my journey from a technology perspective and really started out as a jack of all trades, customer support, basic accounting, customer service, that type of environment.
Barbara Massa: And then one day that company folded. And I think as people can appreciate, you have bills to pay and responsi. And I actually went to a recruitment agency just to find any role that I possibly could, and at that time, they were actually seeking somebody to work in their offices. And that really started my journey in the recruitment and talent arena.
Barbara Massa: Found that I was. Good at it. I liked the engagement with people and understanding what they were looking to do and kind of match that up with what our customers, you know, were looking at by way of, of hiring needs and hiring targets. Early days in Silicon Valley, the rise of Apple computer and Fairchild and I B M and tremble navigation.
Barbara Massa: So I'm certainly dating myself a little bit there. But that really got me started into the, the people career journey. If I sort of fast forward from there, I just continued to have great leadership opportunities, became a manager, became truly, and we'll talk a little bit more about this, what it. To be, you know, difference of, of management and, and leadership.
Barbara Massa: Formed some great relationship over the years with CEOs and CFOs who went on to become, you know, heads of other companies that I then followed along my career path because we'd formed a really trust. And connected bond, and they knew what I was capable of and I really trusted in their values led leadership and, and the businesses that they became part of.
Barbara Massa: And ultimately then wound up in the executive suite along, you know, a 20 plus year career journey and helping take a company public, do lots of acquisitions over the years. And certainly now in, in my role in kind of post-retirement, in serving as a board member and advisor to other. So atypical, not the the typical journey that that one would have, but certainly learned a, a lot of really good lessons along the way in, in that path.
Amanda Berry: Lemme ask you,
Amanda Berry: Barbara, as you're, you're making these changes and picking up these different roles, were you like, focused on, this is my next step? Or were you sort of open to a lot of opportunity and say, Hey, that's a great opportunity, I'm gonna take it. How, how did you
Barbara Massa: navigate that? It's a great question, Amanda, and yes, I didn't have a pre-planned, okay, I am now a recruiter and I want to be this next thing.
Barbara Massa: It really wasn't as planned for me. I really looked at. What was the opportunity for me to grow and learn something that I didn't already know how to do? So that was what I constantly had running in the back of my mind. It wasn't am I gonna get to lead this bigger group of people, or you know, how much money is that job?
Barbara Massa: Those really weren't decision criteria for me. It was. Is this opportunity something that I'm gonna go get a chance to learn and make my work visible to people that maybe hadn't been exposed to my work yet? Given the role that I held, that also formed an an important part of what went through my mind on, should I go for this and put my hand up?
Barbara Massa: You know, should I be the hand in the room that went up and said, yeah, go take this project or go take this. It was really about being curious and I think that's a theme throughout my career has been an, an intense curiosity to learn and try different things maybe that I didn't quite frankly have the business doing at that point.
Barbara Massa: Given, you know, I didn't have subject matter expertise in a, in a particular field, is,
Amanda Berry: is there a role that you can look back and point to that was like the most impactful to where you are today, to gotten you through your entire. Gosh,
Barbara Massa: I haven't really reflected on that. That's a terrific question. I do actually feel that there was one seminal moment early in my career that I don't know, I wasn't the decider in that, but I actually went for a position internal to my company at the time, and I didn't.
Barbara Massa: And that was, that was really hard for me because as you know, a high performing athlete, as somebody who has taken great pride in sort of controlling my destiny and being the person who worked the hardest, you know, stayed the latest, kind of did those things, not getting that position was really humbling for me.
Barbara Massa: And when I look back, had I gotten that position, I think it would've steered me. On a different trajectory because I wouldn't have had likely as much opportunity for the exposure to varying projects. I think it would've been a little more pigeonholing on reflection as I look back. So I don't know that I knew it at the time, but I think not getting that one more niche oriented role at that juncture ended up actually serving me really well in the long.
Amanda Berry: Yeah. I love hearing you say that, you know, as you're talking I'm thinking, you know, hearing about, you know, you're breaking your hip and losing that role, like sometimes those moments at the time they feel so defeating and like it's over. But in the reality you can take a step back sort of more retrospective and go while that really, how did that impact it in a positive way?
Barbara Massa: Very,
Barbara Massa: very true. And you know, when I think about. Some of these traits that we talk about and, and certainly what I look for in employees and partners and teammates and organizations. I look for grit and resilience and is somebody comfortable with failing and. How did you get past failure? Because, I mean, name a person that has achieved great success, that hasn't experienced some significant amount of failure in their life.
Barbara Massa: I, I don't know of anybody. And so, you know, certainly in my personal reflection, not being able to play the sport that I loved and yet still going, and I would go to. I would show up, I would walk the field when I could. If I couldn't play, I would be there for my teammates. And I think all that really matters.
Barbara Massa: Again, in its translation to a business context, a career context, you're gonna experience failure and figure out how to be a great teammate to other people, be a good cheerleader for other people. The first thing I did when I didn't get that job was I went over and I hugged the gal that did because I was so happy that she got it, even though I went home and you know, I probably cried in my own tea for a little bit that.
Amanda Berry: Yeah.
Amanda Berry: When we talk to successful people or read about successful people, a lot of times those failures aren't often discussed. Even though we know there has to be some and didn't feel like we haven't normalized failures, so that when people listening, when you fail, you feel like it's the end of the world.
Amanda Berry: Whether it be you've been laid off or you made a huge mistake at work, or you didn't get the job you wanted, or you didn't even get an interview for the perfect job for you, we don't often hear those stories and every once in a while, this, this show, I like to bring out, say you talk about mistakes people have made just to sort of normalize.
Amanda Berry: We've all made mistakes and it feels like the end of the world at the moment. You know, if you cried in your tea or, but like you said, you gotta kind of pick yourself back up and dust yourself off and keep going.
Barbara Massa: Indeed.
Amanda Berry: Well, it sounds like you're retired now. Is that right? I'm actually kinda surprised to hear that because you're, you have such a rich career.
Amanda Berry: I'm, I'm surprised to hear
Barbara Massa: that. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna use air quotes for those that may not be able to actually see me. I'm gonna call it, uh, semi-retired. Okay. So, yeah, you know, I'm, I'm almost. 30 years in career-wise, you know, in total at, at this point. And my last engagement, or my last organization was a wonderful decade spent with FireEye and Mandiant.
Barbara Massa: And then we had a acquisition and a successful sale of, of Mandiant to Google, and really proud of the, the decade of work that we put into to Fire Eye and, and to Manion. And so the Capstone really became just. Reassessment of what did I wanna now do with the next chapter in my life? I have a wonderful family.
Barbara Massa: I have a, a freshman in college daughter. I have a 14 year old son who's in eighth grade going into his freshman year in the fall. I have a wonderful husband and you know, I just went, gosh, you know, I've spent almost 30 years in really intense environments that I have loved and have put heart and soul and every part of my being into and have had the great fortune to again, figure out the right integrated recipes at different points in my life.
Barbara Massa: You'll hear me not use the word balance, so we can certainly talk about that. I like the term recipe, but I felt like. Juncture. Now is the time for me to maybe step out of and not be in an operating role, but be in more of an advising role, do work with more boards. I've got this body of experiences and how can I now be helpful to other CEOs and founders and companies that are looking to grow and scale and just do it from a different seat versus the day-to-day operating role.
Barbara Massa: So that's why I say semi-retired. You know, certainly can't take me too far away from technology and enterprise business, but just in a different seat in the. We're
Amanda Berry: gonna
Amanda Berry: move into our first segment story time. Welcome
Producer 1: to Story Time. Story time. Lemme give you your story.
Amanda Berry: You just talked about your, were your semi-retired.
Amanda Berry: I do wanna come back to recipe versus balance, so we're gonna put that on the to-do list. But you're semi-retired and now you're a board member at Simpplr. Can you talk about why you decide to really make that transition over to a board member? I know you sort of alluded to it in the past, but talk about the decision to
get.
Barbara Massa: Yeah, absolutely. So Simpplr, first of all was introduced to me through a really trusted part of the original funding of Simpplr through Norwest, and a tremendous person by the name of PMO who I just respect greatly. I mean, he's a, a Titan in Silicon Valley and venture capital, and he introduced me to Simpplr and to Diage and, and the team.
Barbara Massa: And I was just first pretty blown away. The vision behind what Simpplr was here to do. And it really connected with me and where I felt like I could add value from employee experience and how can you create that environment and journey for organizations. And I just, I loved the value proposition and I loved the team and what they stood for and kind of that vision and what the, the mission was.
Barbara Massa: So start there because being a board, Really should start first and foremost with, is it an organization and a team that you believe? That you feel like aligns with kind of your values, that you believe as an organization you have some fundamental skill and capabilities to add value to what they need.
Barbara Massa: So you just like start there. And if you're a board member and they aren't aligned, then I think, gosh, what are you there to do? So, you know, that was kind of my, my first touchstone and you know, it really came back to, I've. Time at this point. I really wanted to be able to stay connected to the industry and to technology and innovation and that entrepreneurial spirit and growing and building, but I really just wanted to do it from a different seat and be in an advising capacity.
Barbara Massa: Boards are not here to run the company. They're here to be obvious. Fiduciary responsible parties. They're here to help the company make decisions and deliver on the strategy that they've set out to do. But we're not here to run the business. That's why there's a team in place to do it. So those were really the two primary factors that led me to Simpplr love the value proposition, love dear and the team, and really what the organization is is here to do.
Barbara Massa: So those were the biggies for. Yeah,
Amanda Berry: that's awesome. I mean, you sort of touched on it, right? You're, you're not there to run the company more fiduciary, but I know being an internal comms, when I work at an organization, they go meet the board. It's sort of like we get the, the decks ready, the power from decks ready, and then they all go into this room and it's sort of quiet and it's kind of secret.
Amanda Berry: And then the CEO comes back and leadership team and they say, the board love did, or the board had questions about this, but what do you actually do for someone who you know doesn't go to board meetings? Help us understand what you're doing to help the company.
Barbara Massa: Yeah. You know, gets really back to we are here to help the leadership team, help the C E o help the executive team of the organization on the journey of, is the business going in the right direction for which it hopes to go?
Barbara Massa: And again, there's various phases of company journeys, you know, early stage stealth-like kind of organizations, and you come. Stealth and you move into, you know, different series and funding rounds, up and through public offerings and things of that nature. So first and foremost, we have a responsibility to understand, first of all, what is the strategy of the business and is the business performing.
Barbara Massa: As expected and hoped. And if it is, then there are items that we can do to help ask questions and maybe help the leadership team think about things in a bigger way, a different way, a scale way, depending on who the makeup of the executive team is. So sort of bringing the experiences of the board into that room in that engagement and review of, again, organizational KPIs or OKRs or what are the business.
Barbara Massa: Financial targets, and are those being met things around team and leadership. How's the team functioning? Are there skills and capabilities that are needed for the next phase of this company's journey that aren't there? Can we be helpful in that recruitment process? Can we be part of the executive team, finding great people to join the organization again, that may have a different set of skill and capability that the organization will now need to, to take the next step in the journey.
Barbara Massa: You know, a third area is, I'll say the. Responsibility for kind of process adherence governance at different phases of a company. That becomes, you know, as a public company, there are some very strict requirements from regulatory bodies and authorities where you have to attest. To certain things being met.
Barbara Massa: And really in the end up the board is accountable to its key stakeholders and shareholders. And again, you know, is the business performance meeting, what the objectives are. So really there's a lot of review, a lot of discussion, a lot of question asking, and really helping the leadership team of the organization with the objectives that they have set out to accomplish.
Amanda Berry: That sounds amazing. I can see how this group of like, I, I would say powerhouse advisors, right, to help the business scale and grow. That's, that's great to hear. I work it Simpplr, so, but I'm just curious if you could share any insights, something you've learned since becoming a board member.
Barbara Massa: One of the areas that I would probably highlight is the employee experience journey and the vision that dear and and team and Simpplr have laid out.
Barbara Massa: And I would say a little bit of the. Left and right hand turns that have been made prior to my arrival. So I'm a relatively new board member to Simpplr, so I didn't have that history over the last couple of years. So I think for me that was a really great education point because I needed that journey of the history to figure out, okay, well, so what's brought the organization thus far into.
Barbara Massa: Land of, again, an employee experience platform and the power, it's almost simply said, what was the history before Barbara Mass stepped into the room to really make sure then we could help kind of the future stage of the organization. So, you know, not really a tremendously crisp. Tangible metric. But for me that was, I think probably one of the most interesting elements was just learning what had already taken place at this company in its very early entrepreneurial days from where they are now, which is again this incredible, you know, employee experience platform.
Barbara Massa: So I think that would be the area that I would highlight.
Amanda Berry: Great, thank you. I'm gonna move us into our next segment, getting tactical.
Producer 1: I'm
Producer 1: trying to figure out tactics and to be perfectly honest, and I didn't have to worry about tactics too much, here I am in charge and trying to say, why did you sleep through tactics, tactics.
Amanda Berry: Barbara, you have this like, incredible history of all the stuff you've done. I, I don't even know if I could rename it. I mean, just all the pieces of your resume that, that are just phenomenal. And I'd love to just talk further with you about just, you know, some more thinking about leadership and how we've been dealing with stuff over the past couple years.
Amanda Berry: So to get like a leader's perspective of giving advice to leaders. So I'd love to get your. And talk about, we've seen a lot happen over the past couple years. I mean, social unrest, covid layoffs, tight budgets, you know, there's, there's, you know, the layoffs and then budgets are, you know, happening now as we speak.
Amanda Berry: And as a leader of all this, from a board perspective and a leader, how do you make sure the desires of the company and the employees are met when you're dealing with turbulent times?
Barbara Massa: Terrific question and my goodness, yes. Have we all been through and faced so many, you know, unique and by some respects, first of its kind experiences for many people in, in the workforce today?
Barbara Massa: So, you know, I think that the first area that I would highlight and, and talk about is I do firmly believe. Profits and values aren't mutually exclusive. So let's start there. And I think one of the big lessons that we learned, and I will maybe cite some examples from, you know, the pandemic, certainly the critical areas of social unrest that really, you know, needed to come to a forefront and companies needed to be much more proactive in addressing.
Barbara Massa: The notion of thinking about things through a humanity lens, a humane lens, and transparency and communications, I never felt like it was right if we were asking our employees to do something, respond to something, come back from a bubble in a quarter's performance or whatever it happened to be if they didn't have.
Barbara Massa: Almost as much information as we had as a leadership team. And the only reason I, I use the word almost is when you are a public company, you do have to be a little, you know, a little bit more risk adverse when it comes to sharing because there are regulations that you have to adhere to, et cetera. But it's just, I think, a, a humane thing to do to communi.
Barbara Massa: Be honest, be transparent, really ramp up the communications in time of, of duress. I think when companies and leaders don't speak, people are gonna run their own script in their head about what someone is thinking. And I think the best thing we as leaders in organizations can do is to get out in front.
Barbara Massa: Be honest, be transparent, be humane, and oh my goodness, you better do a lot of listen. And that's the, you know, the other element of this is when, when there are things that you don't know, go ask your employees what they think about something. If it's an area that you haven't tackled as an organization before.
Barbara Massa: Go talk to communities and people who might be experiencing things that are different than what the boardroom is experiencing or the C-Suite is experiencing. And so I think through those honest and authentic exchanges, that's where there's a lot of real goodness that companies and leaders really can establish what I will call a reservoir of trust.
Barbara Massa: And if you don't, A reservoir of trust. When you do get into having to make these difficult decisions, whether it be a reduction in a layoff, or you know, something else, that's a hard place to be. But the only way you can establish a reservoir of trust is with that authentic communication, humane engagement.
Barbara Massa: Go into conversations with empathy, go into conversations seeking to learn. Stand, and I think that's where the goodness can happen, even in times of duress and, and turbulance.
Amanda Berry: I agree with you that transparency, communication are two big things, and I love that you pointed out that listening, right? Asking employees, listening.
Amanda Berry: Cuz sometimes you'll see where a communication will be put out and it may be transparent, but nobody's listening on the other side. So can you talk about how leaders should be incorporating transparency into these strategies?
Barbara Massa: Yeah, absolutely. So I'll just use one example. Employees are looking to have leaders that they can believe in and trust and have confidence that the vision stays, the mission stays, you know, this path and journey that that we're on is, is the right one.
Barbara Massa: And so I think there is an openness in getting in front of your. Town halls one-on-one communications. During Covid, we did a weekly, in fact, the first probably six months, we were doing it twice a week at some times where we got the entire company onto us. We called it the C e O update, and it would be our c e o, it would be me, it would be other executives where we just wanted to get front and center and be present and very visible in front of our employees.
Barbara Massa: Sometimes we had a lot to say and sometimes we. And when we didn't, we said we didn't. So I think that's kind of one example. I think the other area would be when you get into areas of restructure and layoff, you need to be able to communicate and describe the why and describe. Is it a business pivot? Is it market conditions?
Barbara Massa: What are the reasons underneath it? Now, again, there will always be voices in the room that will say, you can't say that it's too risky. I mean, every organization is gonna have to decide where their risk tolerance is. But I have always aired on the side of you tell people why it is that you're needing to make cuts or reductions.
Barbara Massa: And again, back to doing it humanely, there's a way that you. Have people exit your organization with dignity and with respect and. Eye to eye communications, very thoughtful support for them as they exit the business. And you know, I'm a big fan of that Maya Angelou quote, and I might not get it perfectly right, but people might forget what you said, or they might forget what you did, but they will never forget how you made them feel.
Barbara Massa: And I think that's a touchstone for the right way to do things. So sometimes you gotta be a little risk adverse, but I just err on the side of tell people the why. Why do you have to make cuts? Why do you have to make reductions? How can you support them with empathy and respect and dignity? I think that's a really important part of when the downturns happen, and also realize that you may likely have an employee population.
Barbara Massa: That might be experiencing this for the first time. So for those of us that are of certain age, you know, we lived through the bust in oh eight. We've lived through other really significant downturns. But you could have managers who are early in their career, they've never had to let somebody go. They don't know how to do this.
Barbara Massa: You could have leaders, CEOs, entrepreneurs, wonderful business leaders that have never had to deal with this. So I think that's that other bit that we have to consider is you are dealing with folks that might not have had this experience, and to be really cognizant of that.
Amanda Berry: I wanna take a step back cause I, I have a similar sort of thought.
Amanda Berry: I've worked at places where we've had turbulent times and the one I'm thinking of as an organization worker for, they had to lay off a third of their workforce and just trying to come back from that. I worked there for a long time trying to come back from that. Even years later, the employees that were left.
Amanda Berry: Didn't feel like they have a really fully trusted leadership again. So when you bring in new employees, that wasn't quite the same feeling, but the ones that remained never brought that trust back. And it could be any turbulent time, right? Budget cuts or employees being laid off or whatever. But, uh, so I wanna talk to you, given your perspective and the leadership roles that you've had across Silicon Valley, all of everything you've seen, how does IC HR begin to rebuild trust employees who have lived through a turbulent time at our
Barbara Massa: organization?
Barbara Massa: Well, I think it first starts with the way that those pivots changes. You know what the turbulent I did a product launch fail. Did you know something that you thought was gonna be this big account wind? Did that not happen? You know, whatever it might be. I think the first. Starting point is how transparent and how communicative and in what fashion did the communication go out to the company and in what ways in the first place, because that's the start of where that trust is.
Barbara Massa: And you said you made a very good point, Amanda. You know, just again, back to particular areas around layoffs, it's as important in how you handle that for the people that leave the business as it is for the people that stay. The people that are there and remain may have, you know, survivor guilt. It's an erosion of trust.
Barbara Massa: There's this other myriad of emotions that come into play, and I think the most important thing that leaders can do in doing that, right, is human nature, is you want to believe people. I want to fundamentally believe that what you're saying is true. But if there's evidence that I can see that shows me that that's not the case.
Barbara Massa: Then that trust is broken. So I think it's really incumbent upon, you know, the leaders to do that in a way where, what their actions, the words that they use, the behaviors that they demonstrate and model, those are what people are gonna look to, to see if it's congruent or incongruent. And for companies that have failed to reestablish trust and belief, Hypothesize that perhaps that those values and, and what the actions were that employees saw were incongruent, which is why that trust reservoir was never filled.
Amanda Berry: I'm gonna move on
Amanda Berry: to the next segment, seat at the table.
Producer 1: First, get seat the table. Get seat the table. You want a seat? At the table
Amanda Berry: on this podcast, we often talk about how important it is for internal comms to have a seat at the table. Hence the name of the segment and it starts out with partnerships. So what are some important partnerships? Let's focus internally. You've been a lot of the employee experience area, you're on the board at Simpplr.
Amanda Berry: Can you talk about based on what you know and what you believe, the important relationships that internal comms can have across an organization to help build a better employee experience? Cuz that will help during some of these turbulent times, helps alleviate some of this trust erosion and, and build transparency.
Barbara Massa: You nailed it, Amanda. I mean, I think that the absolute best practice and what I believe to be a key ingredient for. Why in my experiences, we were able to very successfully navigate some of these turbulent times and things like acquisitions and divestitures and things of that nature was because of this incredibly tight partnership between our internal comms, our, I'll say people team, kind of the hr, those looking after the, the people.
Barbara Massa: And directly with the C E O and the C-suite in particular. So we always looked at it as almost a triangle between internal comms and, and that actually organizationally, sometimes it can report into the people or, you know, Culture or employee experience team, oftentimes it will sit in a marketing, marketing, communications, organizations.
Barbara Massa: I've been in places where it's been both and it's worked well, but it really just, it all comes down to the people, right? And are, are you setting the right intentions and and so forth. So we had shared goals. We had a very deeply, and I would. Heartfelt desire to communicate to our employees and our leaders and managers.
Barbara Massa: We just shared the same value set between what the internal comms team wanted to do, what I and my team wanted to do, what our c e O wanted to do. And so that foundational base was established. So when it came down to writing scripts and talking points and what, what did we need to communicate and how did we need to communicate and when did we need to communicate?
Barbara Massa: We did that work together. And it wasn't like one body sat over here to the left and sort of waited for the bullet points. No, we were ideating together. And so it was a. Symbiotic relationship. And again, over time, I'll just come back to the word trust. There was a deeply ingrained, trusting relationship between these functions.
Barbara Massa: And so when it came down to, Hey, are we gonna bring you in the tent because we got this? Hairy thing we gotta talk through. Internal comms was right there and I think it just made for all the better. There was no scramble at the 11th hour. I mean, there's always scramble at the 11th hour, but there just had been so much time and preparation allowed, given that relationship and, and partnership.
Amanda Berry: Yeah, I feel like I hear, I mean, I still hear it a lot. I know I've experienced it myself, being in internal comms where they just don't do that. They just don't bring it in. So I'm wondering if you have any advice to any C-suite leaders listening to this, CEOs to help them understand the importance of internal comms having to see the table in turbulent times and in not in turbulent times at any time.
Barbara Massa: Yes, I, I think that for any leader, C-Suite member, et cetera, let's just come down to the word, it's communications and. Who are the experts that have the skill and the capability to help us communicate what we need to communicate? If you've got the right people in those roles, whether it's one person or you have the luxury of having a team of 15 people to do internal comms, depending on where you are in, in the company's journey, the practitioners of the other businesses, whether it be people, teams, or engineering or sales or what have you.
Barbara Massa: We might be experts in our subject area, but we aren't necessarily experts in communicating in all of the different avenues. Maybe people are a better public speaker. Maybe you're a better writer, maybe you don't do either very well, and so I just come back to the most simplistic thing. The word is communications in times of.
Barbara Massa: Success. You wanna communicate and spread the love and share the great news in times of significant duress. You need to communicate and you need to craft those messages in the right ways, get to the right audiences. So that's the biggest thing, is bring in the experts. If you need to engineer a new product, you know you're not going and asking somebody who doesn't have that core capability to do it.
Barbara Massa: You're bringing in the experts. So that would be my public service announcement for why the importance.
Amanda Berry: We're gonna take that clip out and just use it everywhere as a reminder to, to leaders on the importance of communication. Let's move into our last segment, asking for a friend
Producer 1: who's asking for a friend.
Producer 1: Hey, asking for a.
Amanda Berry: So I, I'm thinking about this question because you're a board member, a Simpplr, a company that's focused on improving the employee experience, and then I'm thinking about our audience who might be going to leaders talking about the importance of improving the employee experience. So that's, that's the connection I'm making.
Amanda Berry: So how are you advising Simpplr regarding their focus on employee experience and humanness?
Barbara Massa: Yeah, so I think the big areas, first and foremost, more and. People make decisions about how they spend their dollar based on the qualities and values of the organization. Whether it is who you're purchasing items from, where you are saying, gosh, yes, I'd like to go be an employee of that company.
Barbara Massa: You know, more and more it's about are my values aligned and congruent with the values of who I'm buying from or, or who I want to to go work for? And. I think that thread with Simpplr and its journey about humanness. Think about all of the areas of the touchpoints of the employee experience. Products don't engineer themselves.
Barbara Massa: Products don't. Sell themselves, generally speaking, without there being some kind of human touch involved. And so when you think about, you know, how important it is for organizations to think about the employee experience in direct correlation to the success of their business? That's really the intersection of the conversations between Simpplr and, and certainly myself, you know, as the, the newest member of, of the board.
Barbara Massa: It touches everything. It touches how managers are equipped to, you know, lead and communicate. I always say the magic happens on the front lines between managers and, and teams. All the way in and across that journey. How do you recognize success in an organization? Well, it's through people feeling and touching it.
Barbara Massa: How do people experience a culture? It shows up in the way of the employee experience. And do you see the values being expressed and delivered on a daily basis? And so I think Simpplr is value proposition in, again, looking at the employee. Platform and the totality of that, it's about the human experience.
Barbara Massa: So that's threaded very, very strongly throughout all of the discussions that we spend time on.
Amanda Berry: There's a part of me that wishes we could peel back the, almost like the roof of Somer if everyone worked in that building together, cuz we're all over and just see how the company has ran and, and how our c e o and our C-suite runs that company and really get a bird's eye view or, or even just like a fly on the walls eye view of the way that they.
Amanda Berry: Are genuinely grateful and, you know, are are good people and fun to work with. I think that would, that would help people understand it's a company that cares about the human employee experience and that's the mission of the company.
Barbara Massa: Yeah, it's a big differentiator. It really is. You just kind of come back to you, you wanna work in an organization.
Barbara Massa: You trust the person to your right. You trust the person to your left. You have confidence in leadership. You're at a company where you believe in what the business is there to do and, and deliver. And it's just comes back down to, to people and like you said, approaching things from a, a humble perspective, being very grateful and, you know, knowing.
Barbara Massa: High success and high performance. You get that when people are willing to really give of themselves. And, and I don't mean, you know, having to turn the crank wheel and work 24 hours a day, seven days a week, but it's about that discretionary effort and that willingness to kind of put mind, body, and soul into something.
Barbara Massa: And I, I just, I think Simpplr has got something really special and it is because it lives up to the employee. That it wishes to go bring out there in the world by way of, of the product and capabilities that it offers.
Amanda Berry: Absolutely. Let's talk about that cranking of the wheel. I wanna go back to something you said in the beginning of this podcast, recipe versus balance.
Amanda Berry: I wonder if you would just discuss your thoughts on that. I'd love to hear what, what those things mean to you and which one you
Barbara Massa: follow. Yeah, so I, I've long. Disliked the word balance. Just for me personally, when I think about balance, I have this mental visual of a teeter-totter. And so to me, a teeter-totter is unstable and I just, I kind of visualize myself rocking back and forth and going, oh, you know, how, how stable am I?
Barbara Massa: And I've always likened this notion, A recipe and how do you integrate the recipe of what you. Because that recipe could change throughout your lifetime and your career journey. So early on, I'll call it, you know, the first 10 years of my career, I, I mean it was just constant curiosity being the hand in the room that went up.
Barbara Massa: I'll take that project, I'll do that. I wanna learn more. Who don't I know in the organization? How do I get to know them? Ooh, they've got a cool job. Let me go see if I can get five minutes of their time, cuz I wanna go learn more about what they do. So, Very different. I didn't have a family at that time, or I should maybe say more specifically.
Barbara Massa: I didn't have children at that time, and so how I could spend my time in that period was different than when you have the responsibilities of a family or. Caring for elderly parents or friends or family that might be ill. You know, the whole myriad of things that come into a person's life and my recipe then changed when I had my first child, and that recipe needed to look different.
Barbara Massa: I needed to. Change the hours that I was working. I can only feed a baby. I can't feed a baby and write emails at the same time. So I, I had to come up with a different recipe for that period of time. Then you have other periods of time. I had elderly parents that for three, four years, had to spend a lot of time caring for them and with them.
Barbara Massa: Like I said, I have a wonderful supportive partner and he was a huge help in, in that as well. But again, This recipe of time and how did I get my job done? And, you know, it was not about lessening performance. It was about changing the recipe and the ingredients to figure out how could I still keep the performance that I wish to deliver to the business, but do it in a different way.
Barbara Massa: So that's why I used the word recipe, because that recipe that I used early on looked very different at different parts in, in my journey. That's why I, I choose a little different word set. Just describe that.
Amanda Berry: I love that. I also think of when the balance's almost like a teeter totter, right? But it's balancing, it's trying to stay equal, so, you know, a couple drops of water, it can throw it off a balance.
Amanda Berry: So I like the recipe metaphor quite a bit. Mm-hmm.
Barbara Massa: Yeah, and, and that's a great one too, right? Any tiny little thing that drops when you're on a teeter totter, my goodness, that can throw you off kilter for.
Amanda Berry: Well, Barbara, this has been so much fun. I've really enjoyed getting to know you, hearing what you have to say, learning from you.
Amanda Berry: This has been absolutely fantastic for me. Before I let you go, let our listeners know where they can find
Barbara Massa: you. Yes, so please connect with me on LinkedIn. I think I might be the only Barbara Massa in the, the Bay Area. I am here based. Look me up on LinkedIn. That's probably the best place to find me and would love to, to connect with you and, and certainly be of help in, in the discussions in your career journey as well.
Amanda Berry: Thank you so much for joining me today, Barbara. This has been great.
Barbara Massa: Thank you, Amanda. Thanks for having me.